Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

English thing or an english generational thing?

147 replies

Winniethepig · 28/12/2022 09:52

I'm Australian and my partner is
English, I have had two births, one on the NHS and one in Australia on our NHS equivalent.

Tonight our visiting in laws asked me to compare the births, and I had to say all in all the Australian birth was better and the one on the NHS was pretty horrific.

In short the NHS gave me a stretch and sweep without even asking, under the guise of an examination, which was excruciating. Followed by an extremely delayed epidural (I had to be augmented with hormones, and they said I could have the drip but had to wait for the epi, and every doctor and midwife gave me different reasons), only tk have it cut off to push, and then was stitched up with hardly any pain relief.

Compared to Australia, Epidural with 30 mins of asking, Epidural left in for the entire time through to stitches; and no examinations without gas and air or someone talking me through it.

Basically they told me; well can't we agree that your babies are here now, and just draw a line beneath it all? Then MIL said, well I had episiotomies without being asked (in the 80's) and I don't complain.

Honestly, why ask? If you just want to shut it down.

Is this an English thing? Am I supposed to just give a happy response, or is it just that generation?

Is it unreasonable to give an actual honest answer?

OP posts:
Original poster
Winniethepig · 28/12/2022 09:55

Or, was it me ragging on the Church of the NHS?

OP posts:
RegularNameChangerVersion21 · 28/12/2022 09:57

My mum worked as a doctor in the NHS and always warned me that maternity care in the UK was massively underfunded and understaffed to the point of being dangerous. Statistically we're one of the worst in Europe. Other areas of the NHS are world ckass but giving birth is dire.

AnotherAppleThief · 28/12/2022 09:58

You're Australian and preferred giving birth in Australia. So? Not exactly a surprise is it?

Brokendaughter · 28/12/2022 09:58

I would have been honest & the NHS have an appalling record on maternity services in some areas of the country so you aren't the first person to not have a good experience.

I don't think you were unreasonable to tell the truth when they asked your opinion.

Readabookgroucho · 28/12/2022 10:00

You had a bad experience. Presumably people in Australia also have bad medical experiences.
I’ve had 2 kids in the NHS and my care was exceptional. The first was an emergency and they literally saved my life.
My DF had free world
class cancer treatment on the NHS. I have a child with a long term medical condition being managed fantastically in the NHS.

So, it all depends.
I don’t think you can write off an entire health system because you didn’t have a good experience one time.

LizzieSiddal · 28/12/2022 10:00

It’s definitely not an English thing or generational. It sounds like your ILs are just idiots. Why ask a question if you are then going to have a go at the person for being honest?

MrsPelligrinoPetrichor · 28/12/2022 10:03

Winniethepig · 28/12/2022 09:55

Or, was it me ragging on the Church of the NHS?

This probably. Drives me up the wall, people don't like you moaning about the so called wonderful NHS .

EnyoClytemnestra · 28/12/2022 10:03

It's rather a lottery in the UK - some maternity wards/units are good, sadly, most are not. There is an attitude from midwives and obstetricians that they know best
Then there's the rivalry (and outright hostility at times) between medics and midwives - such stubborness has led to a myriad of baby & maternal deaths (and numerous enquiries into these)
And many women here have learnt to bite the bullet when having an episiotomy and sutures because "having a baby is perfectyly natural..."

Original poster
Winniethepig · 28/12/2022 10:04

AnotherAppleThief · 28/12/2022 09:58

You're Australian and preferred giving birth in Australia. So? Not exactly a surprise is it?

My first birth was on the NHS, just happened to be in Australia visiting when I went into labour early, so it wasn't a preference, just happened that way, was fully planning to have the baby in UK

OP posts:
poetryandwine · 28/12/2022 10:04

Hi, OP -

In my experience it is an English thing. I am European, settled here for family reasons. I do like the self deprecating sense of humour and find it attractive that the English do not brag. But frequently they want us to do it for them. I am constantly being asked to make comparisons between my home country and England. There are some things my home country is internationally renowned for doing better, and no one ever asks about those.

Also I lived in America for 15 years. Like anywhere it has good and bad, on a large scale. I am no defender of the bad, including in health care and higher education(my profession). But the amount of recent misinformation and America bashing on MN recently in those areas is appalling

IME the Scots are somewhat better about this. I don’t have much experience of the Irish or Welsh

poetryandwine · 28/12/2022 10:06

PS My family’s personal experience of the NHS has been excellent for life saving care and good on the whole. I am a big supporter overall and desperately worried now.

DifficultBloodyWoman · 28/12/2022 10:07

YANBU.

Aussie healthcare is far more patient centred than the NHS in my own, personal experience.

But, yeah, you dared to say the NHS isn’t perfect. Shame on you!

DifficultBloodyWoman · 28/12/2022 10:08

Sorry - meant to say an English thing.

DreamingOfAGreenChristmas · 28/12/2022 10:10

It doesn’t have to be ‘English’ or ‘generational’, it could just be them, as individuals.

Would you say wanting to generalise was an Australian thing?

KnickerlessParsons · 28/12/2022 10:10

When you say "English" do you mean "British"? Or are you specifically moaning about the English?

Plantsaregreen · 28/12/2022 10:11

Of course it’s not an English thing or a generational thing, it’s just your in-laws 🤷‍♀️. Some English people may also respond like them, some may not, we’re all different.

Thepeopleversuswork · 28/12/2022 10:11

A lot of ire and suspicion is directed at non British people who dare to question the NHS. Despite the fact that it provides near third world healthcare standards in certain areas. Don’t take it personally. It’s a bit like criticising the Catholic Church in Ireland. Based to steer away from the whole topic.

Oher · 28/12/2022 10:13

The NHS it’s usually great for cancer/heart disease but it’s appalling for childbirth. Really bad. The rich give birth in private hospitals or at home with private midwives.

It is definitely and ‘English thing’ that yoj should shit up and be greatful for anything from the NHS. People seem to think it’s some free gift not a service we pay for that is crap value for money to taxpayers.

ThisTimeNext · 28/12/2022 10:13

No-one likes being criticised - and maybe that's how it came across. Maybe it's just your PiL - we don't know. Your experience is your experience - and we've all had good and bad. It might be them, or you but it's not particular to the English.

I've been present when expats criticise, (sometimes in the guise of observation or humour or "honest opinion") and it never goes down well. The French, Japanese, Spanish, Americans, Italians and Russians that I've been in the company of when it's been pointed out that their country has been lacking have all reacted defensively. (Even if they might say some of it themselves)

Afterfire · 28/12/2022 10:14

I think a lot of older people have the attitude that we should be grateful for the nhs no matter how shit the care is and if you have a bad birth experience then as long as you and the baby survive it then that’s okay.

I had an utterly horrific first birth on the nhs in 2003. 70 hours of labour, 3 failed epidurals, huge blood loss, examinations without consent etc. Just horrendous. Was left with life long complex ptsd and made formal complaints. When I spoke to my mil at the time about it she basically sshhhed me and said the baby is here now, it doesn’t matter. Yes it fucking does! I have never forgotten how she made me feel.

I had an elective c section for my second child.

Afterfire · 28/12/2022 10:15

Oher · 28/12/2022 10:13

The NHS it’s usually great for cancer/heart disease but it’s appalling for childbirth. Really bad. The rich give birth in private hospitals or at home with private midwives.

It is definitely and ‘English thing’ that yoj should shit up and be greatful for anything from the NHS. People seem to think it’s some free gift not a service we pay for that is crap value for money to taxpayers.

This.

Virginiaplain · 28/12/2022 10:15

I was recently reading a thread which said that as healthcare in Aus is private or partially private there is a less deferential attitude to staff. So doubt they can do things to you without explanation as happens in U.K.

Oher · 28/12/2022 10:16

Amused that people think that because you weren’t born here you have no right to ask about the medical care you’ve had here.

Medical care in UK is now very very bad with for example those needing fertility treatment often choosing IVF in Spain or Greece where they’re much better at it than UK.

If you move from one first world country to another it’s ok to be surprised by appalling healthcare you get here.

And I’m English, should anyone care 🤣

Cherryana · 28/12/2022 10:20

I think the clue is in the response which was basically I suffered without complaint…some people are martyrs and they want their martydom
to be affirmed and when it’s not they feel their sense of self and what they value/pride themself on is threatened and so go funny.

You had no way of knowing this would be the response. And you did nothing wrong answering.

saraclara · 28/12/2022 10:21

ThisTimeNext · 28/12/2022 10:13

No-one likes being criticised - and maybe that's how it came across. Maybe it's just your PiL - we don't know. Your experience is your experience - and we've all had good and bad. It might be them, or you but it's not particular to the English.

I've been present when expats criticise, (sometimes in the guise of observation or humour or "honest opinion") and it never goes down well. The French, Japanese, Spanish, Americans, Italians and Russians that I've been in the company of when it's been pointed out that their country has been lacking have all reacted defensively. (Even if they might say some of it themselves)

That. It's like criticism of your family members. You can criticise them because they're yours. But you bristle if someone else does. My many lovely Australian relatives emigrated in the 70s and 80s, and visit regularly. When they occasionally criticise things here it irritates me.

Another funny example sticks in my mind. Many years ago (before toysrus came to the UK) I sat with a group of mums while our little kids did an activity. An American mum asked why we didn't have toysrus. Then "but how on earth do you do your toy shopping?". There was a silence and then a dry "we manage".