English thing or an english generational thing?

[Winniethepig]

I'm Australian and my partner is
English, I have had two births, one on the NHS and one in Australia on our NHS equivalent.

Tonight our visiting in laws asked me to compare the births, and I had to say all in all the Australian birth was better and the one on the NHS was pretty horrific.

In short the NHS gave me a stretch and sweep without even asking, under the guise of an examination, which was excruciating. Followed by an extremely delayed epidural (I had to be augmented with hormones, and they said I could have the drip but had to wait for the epi, and every doctor and midwife gave me different reasons), only tk have it cut off to push, and then was stitched up with hardly any pain relief.

Compared to Australia, Epidural with 30 mins of asking, Epidural left in for the entire time through to stitches; and no examinations without gas and air or someone talking me through it.

Basically they told me; well can't we agree that your babies are here now, and just draw a line beneath it all? Then MIL said, well I had episiotomies without being asked (in the 80's) and I don't complain.

Honestly, why ask? If you just want to shut it down.

Is this an English thing? Am I supposed to just give a happy response, or is it just that generation?

Is it unreasonable to give an actual honest answer?

It's not " slagging off Britain" to tell the truth about the NHS 🙄
And the problems are not just that it's underfunded and understaffed. Some of the existing staff should not be allowed anywhere near people, bit there is a sense that we are alls supposed to be grateful for any medical staff at all, however inept, cruel or nasty.

I had several babies under the NHS and all my births were really good. Nothing was done to me without asking.

Post-natally though, it was a different story -people were chucked out way too soon, no nurses to help you. Left to your own devices to breast feed.

No it isn't. But faux innocent "is this just an English thing when everything is so much better in Australia" is.

childbirth is a very common topic for criticism on mn.
and most of the time is NHS.

I had a baby in Australia. It was a great experience despite ending up being induced and having an emergency c section. The local post natal care was great too. Very supportive local centre for mother and baby.

Two more in the UK. Great for emergency neonatal care ( DS in NICU) but absolutely awful in terms of maternal care both in and out of hospital.

I wish DH's job had kept us out there.

The UK very much has a 'women give birth everyday' mentality despite it still being a dangerous event without the proper support and medical care.

Some lovely midwives though, just not enough resource.

NHS maternity is butchery but god forbid you don’t praise it to an English person.

Maybe thing ARE much better in Australia? It doesn't offend me if someone points that out!

You SAID WHAT?

You dared to suggest that the NHS isn't the BEST FUCKING SYSTEM IN THE WORLD?

You're no longer welcome in this hemisphere.

I'm not English either and goodness me, but you don't criticise them!

Perhaps you could suggest that the NHS would be in a better state if it was getting an extra 350 million pounds a week, as promised by the Leave campaign?
www.businessinsider.com/boris-johnson-says-his-350-million-a-week-brexit-claim-was-an-underestimate-2018-1?r=US&IR=T

Not an English thing or a generational thing. It’s a them thing, probably colored by some defensiveness about the UK if their DS has chosen to live in Australia?

It also probably suggests to them that you would choose to have any future children in Australia which may not be what they want to hear.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Nd3wQHm7-sQ

This Mamma cat be the UK when you suggest the NHS ain't all that!

Did you just diss the incompetent NHS??

Exactly this. Isn't it just your in laws? Why the generalisation?

Lol exactly - this attitude actually stops people from talking about their shit experiences.

Yeah but you have to say the NHS is amazing or else English people hate you 😁

I had my babies in a developing country and had much better birth experiences than my friends in the U.K. (got treated with respect and consistent care, they saved my baby from precarious situation and stitched me back up very neatly, good after care. )

I’d be quite worried to have a baby here, but nearest hospital is notoriously bad so may just be unlucky about where I live

They just sound miserable and mean spirited. I don’t think that’s a British thing or a generational thing. They just sound unkind.

Fwiw, I’m not British and moved here in part because I wanted to give birth on the NHS and my experience couldn’t have been further from yours both times. I had wonderful care, lots of one to one attention, everyone respected all my wishes. It sounds like you have a tough first birth but I’m glad the 2nd was more positive.

The reality is that NHS standards for maternity and birth have a higher risk tolerance than in many countries (eg no third trimester scans as standard; a third tri scan would have picked up the complication that nearly killed my first baby.) On top of that they're woefully underfunded and as several reports have found some areas and midwives have a dangerous bias towards 'normal/natural/no interventions' birth rather than a birth based on what's clinically indicated which leads them to withhold healthcare from women on the basis that they know best.

My set up is the same as yours OP - I'm Australian, DH is English and we live in the UK with our two kids. I find there are a lot of the people in the UK who are determined that the NHS is the best possible healthcare model, that free at the point of use is a principle that should never be questioned/discussed, and are totally unwilling to hear that there are any successful healthcare models in between the NHS/totally free at point of use and the Wild West of the USA.

It’s more a blind, stupid love for an organization that is failing and people are dying because of it. It’s sheer idiocy to defend the NHS.

Basically - when you've lived here long enough (I've been here nearly 20 years now) you can mildly criticise things, you're allowed to suggest that they might be better in a third country but (in general) you are absolutely not allowed to suggest that that particular thing might be better in your home country. It's a very short path to Why Don't You Just Go Back There Then If It's So Great.

I'm sure that happens with immigrants all over the world, it's unlikely to be a uniquely British trait, but it's here that I've spent the most time as an immigrant.

I don't think yabu. Anecdotally (yet to give birth myself), UK maternity care - especially when in labour- is pretty appalling.

But everything English is superior to everything Australia, didn’t you know! I am now Australian, lived in England many years, didn’t grow up in either country but God the superiority complex of the Brits makes me laugh and cry in equal measure. I am genuinely baffled by how many poorly educated British people I have met here, often with very limited experience of the world who genuinely seem to believe that being British makes them somehow special.

You're kidding me. My Australian relatives are ALWAYS going on about how superior Australia is. I love them dearly and I'm glad that they have a good live over there, but it's the one thing about them that does my head in. And there are dozens of them, so we're not just talking a couple of individuals.

Almost every mother I know has had an awful experience with the NHS. I am 27 weeks and completely terrified having seen what my friends have gone through. YANBU.

YABU
It isn't either.
It is a "Your MiL thing".

I'm English, and potentially of similar age to your MiL and if I asked a question, I'd enjoy discussion around the answer, whether we happened to agree or not to agree - that's how discussion works.

As an aside, I have no experience of giving birth in Australia, but know maternity services were shockingly bad / understaffed when I gave birth to my dc all over 20 yrs ago. I am guessing things won't have improved, particularly in the last 12 years plus of shocking real time cuts.

YANBU. There’s a subset of English people who genuinely believe in English exceptionalism to the point they sabotage any progress. They won’t stand for any criticism without responding with comebacks such as ‘so why does everyone want to come here?’ (They don’t).

The NHS is not fit for service. And no it’s not the fault of immigrants. It’s just poorly run and money won’t fix the issue, it needs top to bottom reform.