Page 4 | I don't like Welsh people

snowstone · 2022-12-27T14:40:45+00:00

Said to me, a Welsh person born in Wales, married to a Welsh man, with two welsh children. By my own father?! He and my mum are looking at moving houses, I was asking about where and he mentioned they were a looking more at a specific county further away from me. I asked if they'd consider my county as we see them quite a bit. My dad said that my county is too Welsh, and the main draw of the other county is that it's much more English and he fits in better with English people, Welsh people are a bit odd and he doesn't like them and wants to be surrounded by English people. Told him to move to fucking England then! My mum said I overreacted but it was just quite a grim thing to say to be honest, made me look at him a bit different. They were visiting for Christmas Day and the whole atmosphere turned a bit after that and they left earlier than planned. AIBU to be pissed off?!

bloodyplanes · 27/12/2022 16:19

He is entitled to think what he wants and live where he wants but to say that to you was thoughtless and hurtful. To be honest i have only ever heard the nastiness the other way round, vile remarks about the English from welsh people. Ive never heard an English person slag off wales and the welsh ( not saying it doesn't happen btw just that ive never heard it)

LovePoppy · 27/12/2022 16:20

snowstone · 27/12/2022 15:52

@mysterybelle Ha, he definitely does not class himself as welsh despite living here for so long. He was referring to himself as a proud Englishman during this very conversation. He wasn't making jokes at the expense of his 'own kind' he was snarling his mouth up at the thought of being surrounded by welsh people and saying he wants to be surrounded by fellow English people as welsh people are odd and he doesn't like them. I know him and was present for the conversation, there was nothing lighthearted about it

Does he not recognize you as Welsh? Or are you English in his mind?

Anotherbloomingchristmas · 27/12/2022 16:20

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Munches · 27/12/2022 16:23

This has always been the case. No love lost between the two.

I have only ever heard English haters by the Welsh and never vice versa. Same with the Scots but that is my experiences. 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

Canthave2manycats · 27/12/2022 16:24

Jumbojade · 27/12/2022 15:47

I love Wales and regularly holiday there. However I understand one reason why some people don’t like it, depending on the area.

One holiday we stayed near Porthmadog, and I definitely wouldn’t go back to that area as we were sometimes made to feel it was anti-tourism. In one shop we entered the shopkeeper was talking to someone at the counter in English. They then changed and started speaking in Welsh when they noticed us, which I felt was pretty rude, so we left without buying anything (shop lost out on my buying a lovely painting they had). Unfortunately this wasn’t an isolated instance and similar happened several other times too!

Now, when we holiday in Wales, it is in the Rhyl / Colwyn Bay areas and we don’t go much further afield than Llandudno/ Conway. We have always felt much more welcome in these areas, than we did further West or South.

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You lost out on the "lovely painting"...

@snowstone I'm not sure I could get worked up about your dad's comment tbh... I think I'd just have laughed it off and said, "like me you mean?" and let it pass over me.

Life's too short.

SuperPup86 · 27/12/2022 16:24

I'm very sceptical about many of the 'speaking English then switching to Welsh when they saw me' anecdotes

Yep. There are always some trotted out on any thread like this as an example of the uppity Welsh excluding the English 🙄. They're probably made up or vastly exaggerated. As others have pointed out, how did these mean Welsh shopkeepers know you were English immediately on entry? Did you dance in singing the English National Anthem or were you wearing a sign? 😂

To help put your mind at rest, excluded and offended non-Welsh people...even in fluent Welsh speakers, switching swiftly between Welsh and English several times in conversation - even mid sentence - is common. I hear it daily. You likely entered this shop just at a natural switch in language, no more.

MrsCarson · 27/12/2022 16:25

Theunamedcat · 27/12/2022 14:55

It was actually a consideration for university choice Aberystwyth vrs Bangor Aberystwyth is considerably less "welsh" than Bangor apparently

Funny you say that Dd was looking at both and wants Aber. She's Welsh speaking and says the Bangor Uni Welsh are snobby Welsh, you have to be the right kind of welsh for there. Aber were more friendly and accepting.
I'm Welsh, and a rubbish welsh speaker, so use only English. I understand more than I'm willing to attempt to speak.
Your Dad was well out of order, and being very general about Welsh people. some may well not be nice, same with every type of people, but most are very nice and inclusive.

IaltagDhubh · 27/12/2022 16:26

If he’s spent years feeling unwelcome in the community that he’s been living in, I can kind of understand that that that might turn to resentment and a bit of an English vs Welsh view. Presumably he wasn’t including you or your family in his “I hate welsh people” comments, because you don’t exclude him. You are not “Welsh people” you are simply his daughter and grandchildren, just the same as he isn’t “English people” to you, he’s just your dad? Unless you do have a tendency to put down England and English culture, plaster welsh flags around etc. In which case, perhaps you have inadvertently been making him feel the same as he made you feel. You could try buying him a few welsh phrase books, or encouraging him to try Duolingo or some Welsh beginner classes, and getting your DC to try to teach him a few words of Welsh.

StarbucksSmarterSister · 27/12/2022 16:27

He's lived in Carmarthenshire for years and has only just decided this? He sounds like a right plonker.

He could also have made an effort to learn the local language in all the years he's lived there but presumably he can't be arsed to even try ( and yes, I know it's difficult but he could have tried if it was an issue).

LlynTegid · 27/12/2022 16:27

Wales could do without people such as him, hope he does move out of the principality.

CeeJay81 · 27/12/2022 16:31

@Jumbojade that wasn't Blaenau Ffestiniog? By any chance. Woudnt live there if you paid me. Hardly any places are like that though. Its partly welsh speaking where I live but very friendly.

OoooohMatron · 27/12/2022 16:32

snowstone · 27/12/2022 15:45

There's nothing wrong with having a preference about where you want to live, of course, I wouldn't want to live in England as I am very happy in Wales. I wouldn't dream of saying I don't like English people?! That's clearly what the issue is here.

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You're in the minority then! I'm English and went to college in Wales and the Welsh fucking hated us and made no secret of it either. If it makes you feel any better my Dad hates scousers, even though he was born and raised in Liverpool.

StarbucksSmarterSister · 27/12/2022 16:33

It was actually a consideration for university choice Aberystwyth vrs Bangor Aberystwyth is considerably less "welsh" than Bangor apparently

I went to Bangor. Spoke only 3 or 4 words of Welsh, never had an issue. Pubs in Upper Bangor tended to be Welsh speaking, everywhere else was bilingual. It was a long time ago but at that time Aber was considered by many to be more Welsh. I know English people who've gone recently to Bangor and had no problems.

BigglyBee · 27/12/2022 16:33

I lived in Wales as a child (in Pendine). Back then there was far less effort made to promote Welsh as a language, but it was still taught at school. I always found that people were always pleased when I at least tried to speak Welsh, even though I was pretty bad at it! I never noticed anyone switching to Welsh when I arrived anywhere, but I wasn't looking for it, and I was a visitor to their country, so it never occurred to me to be offended by them speaking the language of that country.
I miss Wales. I was really, properly happy there.
OP, your dad sounds like he was completely in the wrong. I have experienced something slightly similar from my (Scottish) children, who were very anti-English for a while. I pointed out two things to them; that they are half-English, and also that if you want "purity" then you end up in real trouble- not in the Nazi sense, necessarily, but in the "this is what happens when too many cousins marry" sense.

gogohmm · 27/12/2022 16:34

How odd an attitude. Pembrokeshire is lovely but too touristy for me, poor man's Cornwall (or not so poor it isn't cheap!) please don't send him over the bridge to England though, we how enough little Englanders in Somerset!

I'd happily live in wales and dd (who lives there) has passable Welsh after 2.5 years

CoffeeBoy · 27/12/2022 16:37

“Little England beyond Wales” is how my (very Welsh) ex boss described Pembrokeshire to me.

her husband once took me to the Presili hills to pick a horse up and warned me “they’re all a bit odd out there, they all speak Welsh”. 😁

SirVixofVixHall · 27/12/2022 16:39

Little England Beyond Wales refers to below the Landsker line, not Pembrokeshire as a whole.

Salome61 · 27/12/2022 16:39

My Mum's family are Welsh and friends and I went to stay with my great aunt in Cardiff in the late 70's. My Mum was born in Caerphilly. We didn't stay long, it seemed quite hostile to tourists then.

StreamingCervix · 27/12/2022 16:41

IaltagDhubh · 27/12/2022 16:26

If he’s spent years feeling unwelcome in the community that he’s been living in, I can kind of understand that that that might turn to resentment and a bit of an English vs Welsh view. Presumably he wasn’t including you or your family in his “I hate welsh people” comments, because you don’t exclude him. You are not “Welsh people” you are simply his daughter and grandchildren, just the same as he isn’t “English people” to you, he’s just your dad? Unless you do have a tendency to put down England and English culture, plaster welsh flags around etc. In which case, perhaps you have inadvertently been making him feel the same as he made you feel. You could try buying him a few welsh phrase books, or encouraging him to try Duolingo or some Welsh beginner classes, and getting your DC to try to teach him a few words of Welsh.

I don’t want to cause a fight, but how would you honestly feel if you replaced the unwelcome in his community from wales to Brixton, and decided that he was holding animosity to a black community for making him feel like an outsider? Would you be sympathetic to his sense of disliking and othering another group?

hiraethheart · 27/12/2022 16:45

BigglyBee · 27/12/2022 16:33

I lived in Wales as a child (in Pendine). Back then there was far less effort made to promote Welsh as a language, but it was still taught at school. I always found that people were always pleased when I at least tried to speak Welsh, even though I was pretty bad at it! I never noticed anyone switching to Welsh when I arrived anywhere, but I wasn't looking for it, and I was a visitor to their country, so it never occurred to me to be offended by them speaking the language of that country.
I miss Wales. I was really, properly happy there.
OP, your dad sounds like he was completely in the wrong. I have experienced something slightly similar from my (Scottish) children, who were very anti-English for a while. I pointed out two things to them; that they are half-English, and also that if you want "purity" then you end up in real trouble- not in the Nazi sense, necessarily, but in the "this is what happens when too many cousins marry" sense.

Pendine ❤️ I grew up there too, and went to Tremoilet primary school. Did you?!

It does make me a little sad to visit these days, Pendine is a ghost town in the winter and has been thoroughly taken over by Parkdean Resorts - and Tremoilet is closed down!

lieselotte · 27/12/2022 16:45

I'm very sceptical about many of the 'speaking English then switching to Welsh when they saw me' anecdotes

Me too. It belongs in the Did Not Happen box.

I also don't understand the inter-UK xenophobia - the UK is too small for people to be stupid about what accent you have (which is effectively what it boils down to, as you don't know that someone is English/Welsh/Irish/Scottish until they speak, and even then they might live in one country and have that accent but be born in another, and have parents from yet another).

Ursuladevine · 27/12/2022 16:47

i will take a punt that this issue aside… you and your father aren’t exactly close

lieselotte · 27/12/2022 16:47

One of my best friends went to Bangor University and I remember being quite disappointed that I didn't hear anyone speaking Welsh there (I went to Cardiff and probably heard more there).

However a few years ago I visited Denbigh and people did speak Welsh there (and English with a distinct Merseyside accent!)

BigglyBee · 27/12/2022 16:53

hiraethheart · 27/12/2022 16:45

Pendine ❤️ I grew up there too, and went to Tremoilet primary school. Did you?!

It does make me a little sad to visit these days, Pendine is a ghost town in the winter and has been thoroughly taken over by Parkdean Resorts - and Tremoilet is closed down!

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I went to Llanmiloe! Tremoilet was much nicer- we went there for a cookery lesson or something once. I'm really sad to hear that your old school has closed.

Mooshamoo · 27/12/2022 17:00

My mum does this all the time! It's bizarre. My mum is Irish, she moved to England 40 years ago. Her two children were born in England. She moved back to Ireland where we live now.

She will constantly say to me that she doesn't like English people and that English people are awful. I have pointed out to her on many occasions that her own two children are English, but she doesn't stop!

I can't understand it. If I moved to Germany and my two children were born in Germany, I don't think I would say to my own children that I hate German people. It's nasty