Private schools and future privilege

[Potsnpans23]

Need to caveat this that I am foreign and grew up in a country that doesn't really have private schools. Was bored this morning and Google a few people from tele, academics and a few others and realised they've all been to private schools (perhaps with a tiny minority who went to a grammar). Got mr thinking- is it that private schools really propel their students to make a success of themselves or is it just privilege shining through and those same kids would have got ahead anyhow? Like if you send an ordinary kid to a private school would they make such a success of themselves?

It’s privilege.. the stats say there is no difference in academic outcome but it means your kids mix with similar very privileged kids and develop a sense of being able to do anything.. just look at the Prime Ministers who come from Elton.

Well I sent my ‘ordinary kid’ to private school and he has done quite well for himself. He owns his own business and employs people. He has definitely used connections from school but the biggest influence and leg up has been utter sheer hard work and commitment.

In the UK, a private school is referred to as a public school, which is very confusing!
So kids have a private education at a public school...
in answer to your question, public schools tend to push pupils harder (after all, you are paying for this), but have better standards, extra-curricular activities, pastoral care, and the chance to make useful friends and contacts

It's self selection. Those in power appoint and recruit people 'like me' who they feel comfortable with. Takes huge effort and a progressive government to break the cycle.

Like if you send an ordinary kid to a private school would they make such a success of themselves?
Take a look at some people of very average abilities in charge of things in government for the answer to this.

It's a combination. My dd went on a bursary, shes still young but doing amazing. That said she has privilege due to the fact us her parents worked our way up to this point

I went to a tiny private school, now closed down. I was on a scholarship, IRL I was from a very poor background. Academically I've done OK, but careerwise, nope. Just followed dh round the country supporting his career.
I scrub up well and can mingle socially and feel happy in smart society, which dh doesn't (he went to a comprehensive, but has been really successful in his work)

So I'd say it gave me "polish" but no big advantage workwise.
And there are different private schools. Mine was all religion and being young ladies. The teaching and expectations were good. But it had no serious reputation to uphold.

There are many, many private schools across the country. Most are not anywhere near the league if the public schools such as Eton, Harrow, Westminster, etc.

It’s mainly at these public schools connections matter. For the vast majority of other private schools, connections are not more “lucrative” than if you went to a good grammar or comprehensive.

While it is true that many from the top private schools will land good jobs, the vast majority of people in top jobs will come from other schools, including from abroad. So going to a top private school might increase your chances but that’s all. It does not mean that other people from other type of schools can’t or won’t make it. In fact, in terms of numbers rather than proportion, more of them do.

True, yet many in this society would have you believe that this country operates on merit and it’s the fault of women, ethnic minorities and working class folks why they are not at the top of the ladder.

Meritocracy is a myth. The top of the ladder looks the way it looks not because of merit.

So we have no connections in this country, could at a push (maybe and thats a big maybe) send our one kid to a local private school (it's in London but not a big name of anything). Would it really make that much of a difference than sending them to a good comprehensive?

When I checked this morning it wasnt just politicians - media personalities but also talking heads on radio4 i.e. experts and academics.

I'm foreign and went to a private school in NZ. My view will be from an outsider. It's self selective because the people who go there have parents who are priviledged and have connections. By going to school with these priviledged people, you have a network of old friends who are all well connected. Also, because of their priviledge, they believe they are better than the commoners. (See the incident at Eton where state school girls were booed in the talk of Farage. Or how Rees-Mogg talks about common people).

The more privilege the school you go to, the better your advantage.

This isn’t really accurate. Public schools are a very particular type of private school, (and are usually boarding) those are the schools where the networking and connections are probably most useful.
There are lots of private schools that are not public schools. My ds goes to a small independent senior day school.

No one has a crystal ball. Don't forget that the kids themselves also have parents who are well connected, not just their friends.

You also have to weigh up the sacrifice you take to send them to independent school. If they are going to university, how much more debt will they have if you use the money to pay for university instead? It's a graduate tax so they'll be poorer for most of their working lives compared to coming out with no debt. I read somewhere the biggest financial gift you can give a child is now a deposit to their first home. Will you be able to afford that if you pay school fees? All the money they might earn more in their working live may never make up for the £50,000 deposit in their early 20s.

I think it's the networking opportunities that private schools provide. They offer such a range of activities that pupils are bound to find something they like and use this to connect with people. They also help a lot with uni applications and place a strong emphasis on speaking "properly", which will impress certain employers.

State schools still basically churn out factory workers. Except there aren't many factories any more. Still, keep believing that the system was set up in your best interests........

My bad - apologies!

I think that's unfortunately quite accurate when you look at the UK employment statistics. It's rooted in the deeply entrenched class system, I believe.

I have one at a London super selective private school and one at a good London comprehensive.

There are two main differences:

1. The private school works the kids way harder. At least an hour’s extra homework per day and high standards expected (a grade 7 at GCSE is seen as low).
2. Confidence and polish. DD is proud of her school and has high expectations of what she can achieve, partly by being surrounded by kids of professional parents.

So I think it is a mixture of both the group of people but also because achievement is improved through extra work.

Think of it as the kids coming out of an intensive music academy. Yes, they select kids with potential but the extra years of intensive work make a huge difference to achievement. It is possible for highly motivated and disciplined individuals to make it without going to the specialist school but much harder.

That's so not true !

Yes, so we're potentially looking at an excellent London comprehensive in South London or a nothing exceptional private school (also in South London). Not sure that DS would get into the super selective South London private schools.

If money isn't a problem, I'll choose private because it's easier to arrange the extra curricular activities.

Surely worth a try, no?

Most (but not all) private seconds schools require the children to pass exams to get in, which sets an expectation that everyone there is capable of doing well enough. In the state system you can have the same by sending them to a grammar school but there aren't that many around and you pay via inflated house prices instead.

Financial it wont be easy and will mean staying in our flat rather than getting a house - which is ok as we only have the one but still. Private school also seem pretty hard to get into around here

If the private school isn't any good OP then what are you paying for? There are plenty of London state schools with excellent academics, sport and music opportunities. Grammar schools are an obvious starting point.

@Turmerictolly I am not sure we have any grammar schools around us. We're in Dulwich so it's either state or private here