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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think most people probably don't need an ambulance...

250 replies

Vwswimmer1 · 21/12/2022 18:05

Just that really. Also so many people that don't realise you still get triaged in an ambulance and can end up in the waiting room with everyone else...

Obviously not about people who can't mobilise or people or genuinely need one but the amount of stories I heard of people calling ambulances when they really don't need to.

OP posts:
FictionalCharacter · 21/12/2022 20:42

middleofthelittle · 21/12/2022 18:33

OP I 100% agree. A lot of the time they are used as - broke my ankle so called an Ambulance??

Ambulances are meant for when people need urgent care on the way to hospital. Not as a means of going to hospital.

Exactly.

JenniferBooth · 21/12/2022 20:42

OP You should be just as annoyed at the councils who didnt grit the pavements. But once again its easier to blame the patients.

Original poster
Vwswimmer1 · 21/12/2022 20:44

JenniferBooth · 21/12/2022 20:42

OP You should be just as annoyed at the councils who didnt grit the pavements. But once again its easier to blame the patients.

I mean I'm not annoyed at the council, I'm annoyed at the government for all of this. They are the reason the NHS is failing but I do believe people need to take responsibility as well.

It is possible to believe both.

OP posts:
AutumnScream · 21/12/2022 20:44

Ill thought out threat really when emergency cases cant get an ambulance when needed. 999 deemed my dp having a heart attack as able to wait 5 hours for an ambulance.

CarPoor · 21/12/2022 20:45

I agree that lots of people call for ambulances when they don't need them, not necessarily time wasting but I do think sometimes people seem to think think need an ambulance to get them to A&E. Or think that the ambulances take them to a special part of the hospital that's not A&E.

There are obviously the patients that will call like every day, but generally these patients have something else going on so it's not as simple as just time wasting

Realistically everyone who calls an ambulance thinks they need it. And people panic and think they are doing the right thing.

JenniferBooth · 21/12/2022 20:45

The councils were coming out with the protect the NHS rhetoric and taping off benches and playgrounds in the name of protecting the NHS
The hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance is breath taking.

FTY765 · 21/12/2022 20:46

111 quite often send ambulances based on their protocols etc. It may not be them requesting one as such.

DdraigGoch · 21/12/2022 20:48

Theoldwrinkley · 21/12/2022 18:18

I so so agree. If you can walk you can get in a car/taxi. I was taken in (about 18 months ago) for anaphylactic shock. I offered to go in taxi and was told not to. My acquaintance (hyperchondriac...calls ambulance twice a year) always calls an ambulance (for a cough....I have no patience with her) as she'll get 'faster' treatment. I am ashamed of her.

There are circumstances where an ambulance is needed even for someone who can walk, but yes paramedics hate it when a relative moans about a wait of several hours before saying "I'll follow you in the car" when the patient walks out to the van. If it was so urgent then why didn't you drive them?

Original poster
Vwswimmer1 · 21/12/2022 20:48

AutumnScream · 21/12/2022 20:44

Ill thought out threat really when emergency cases cant get an ambulance when needed. 999 deemed my dp having a heart attack as able to wait 5 hours for an ambulance.

I'm very sorry to hear that, I assume that's because there were a lot of cat 1 calls +/- the ambulances been stuck at hospitals unable to handover their patients.

OP posts:
whattodoisthequestion · 21/12/2022 20:48

I'm in A&E at the minute with my mum and have been told it's very quiet tonight due to all the people who just come in for no good reason haven't been able to and it's only the very sick who are actually here

Original poster
Vwswimmer1 · 21/12/2022 20:50

Reindeersnooker · 21/12/2022 20:18

What is your role?

Working in a hospital isn't much good if you're not medically trained to make these decisions! You are arguing on this thread with an a and e doctor who manages to sound like they have professional expertise to back up their position. What is yours except that you 'work in a hospital'? Presumably if you had a role that was relevant you would have mentioned it by now.

Show quote history

Interesting that you're now not engaging after I've said what my role is?

OP posts:
MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 21/12/2022 20:52

Luckydip1 · 21/12/2022 20:12

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow that will be telephone appointments then, not proper ones.

75-80% of appointments are face to face.

Luckydip1 · 21/12/2022 20:54

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow source?

XenoBitch · 21/12/2022 20:55

CarPoor · 21/12/2022 20:45

I agree that lots of people call for ambulances when they don't need them, not necessarily time wasting but I do think sometimes people seem to think think need an ambulance to get them to A&E. Or think that the ambulances take them to a special part of the hospital that's not A&E.

There are obviously the patients that will call like every day, but generally these patients have something else going on so it's not as simple as just time wasting

Realistically everyone who calls an ambulance thinks they need it. And people panic and think they are doing the right thing.

I called 999 on myself earlier this year. Paramedics showed up, and it turned out to be a panic attack.
Of course, I felt like a prize fool, and I did try to cancel them coming when I felt better later on.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 21/12/2022 20:57

Vwswimmer1 · 21/12/2022 20:22

I'm a specialist nurse. I'm not arguing with anyone. Everything I've said has been from examples I've seen in A&E.

I full appreciate and accept every situation is different, my point is that many people use the ambulance service when they don't necessarily need to. I have seen this first hand so don't need people telling me it's not true, whether they're an A&E doctor or whoever.

Specialist nurse in which speciality? What's your experience of assessing patients in non-hospital settings? How many patients - exactly - have you ever assessed outside a hospital?

Are you aware that 50% of ambulance call-outs result in non-conveyance? Ambulance crews are very, very good at filtering out unnecessary calls and at treating/signposting in the community.

"Didn't need an ambulance" is usually a retrospective diagnosis.

magicthree · 21/12/2022 20:57

There are situations where they want the paramedics with you asap though, and where a taxi driver might be reluctant to take you.

This. It's all very well saying "go in a taxi", but what if something happens? Taxi drivers are not paramedics.

Thank goodness I live in a country where, although the health services are stretched to the limit, you can still get an ambulance for something which is not an emergency but needs a paramedic.

DdraigGoch · 21/12/2022 20:58

Ambulances are meant for when people need urgent care on the way to hospital. Not as a means of going to hospital.

Indeed, long gone are the days when they were just a van staffed by stretcher bearers who knew basic first aid. Paramedics are not mere "ambulance drivers".

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 21/12/2022 20:59

Luckydip1 · 21/12/2022 20:54

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow source?

NHS Digital. It was up to 72% nationally in October link and the figures are tracking as higher for Nov/Dec, as a result of Strep A.

Tiani4 · 21/12/2022 21:03

I am working with people that are dying and seriously ill.
I am so angry that no paramedics are available today to take someone to a hospice nor into hospital and that tomorrow ambulance service will be slammed

Yea I think paramedics should be better paid

No I don't think they should have left vulnerable patients without anyway to get urgent help. So no I do not support this action

Luckydip1 · 21/12/2022 21:05

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow only 71% F2F, there you go.

Poppedmytyreffs · 21/12/2022 21:08

Absolutely agree! I've seen people brought info a&e with things that I wouldn't even see my GP for! An example-constipation?!? But he mentioned abdo pain & a 'popping sound' so aneurysm was concerned about!

This is a member of staff as well 🙄who's Bradford score is 5300

Original poster
Vwswimmer1 · 21/12/2022 21:08

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 21/12/2022 20:57

Specialist nurse in which speciality? What's your experience of assessing patients in non-hospital settings? How many patients - exactly - have you ever assessed outside a hospital?

Are you aware that 50% of ambulance call-outs result in non-conveyance? Ambulance crews are very, very good at filtering out unnecessary calls and at treating/signposting in the community.

"Didn't need an ambulance" is usually a retrospective diagnosis.

Show quote history

When you say 50% of callouts are non-conveyance it isn't clear whether you mean these patients are treated at home and therefore don't need hospital care or whether they don't need hospital care full stop? Please can I have a reference for this data so I can read it.

I'm not going into my whole nursing history as for one it could be outing as I work in a very specific field now with lots of background in various areas including the community.

Asking - exactly - how many patients I've assessed out of hospital is a silly question, I obviously don't keep count of these things.

I don't really understand what you're trying to argue with me about, lots of people on this who are call handlers have agreed with me, I know people who have called ambulances unnecessarily so what point exactly are you making?

OP posts:
Tiani4 · 21/12/2022 21:09

So no I would have breached this union strike . Even though I'm a member of union and usually am supportive of collective bargaining .

Because I don't think an extra £1 an hour or whatever is worth the pain that it causes to our patients who need us. There had to be a better way. Our patients / clients are not bargaining chips - they are people in pain and in poor health. This is so wrong, today was so wrong

Poppedmytyreffs · 21/12/2022 21:09

It isn't 'just' about better pay, its about conditions & being able to maintain patient safety!

Mydpisgrumpierthanyours · 21/12/2022 21:10

While I agree people know what to say to get an ambulance I think from the other end of the spectrum public transport is so dire at the best of times and if it's the middle the night taxis arent exactly affordable especially in a cost of living crisis how are these people going to get to a&e? I'm not advocating for them ringing an ambulance if they dont need for but if more local options ooh, gp etc were available people would use them.
It all feeds into each other. every cog of the nhs needs to be well oiled to work together. I dont think theyve been oiled in years