To think most people probably don't need an ambulance...

[Vwswimmer1]

Just that really. Also so many people that don't realise you still get triaged in an ambulance and can end up in the waiting room with everyone else...

Obviously not about people who can't mobilise or people or genuinely need one but the amount of stories I heard of people calling ambulances when they really don't need to.

I can say I 100% work in a hospital. There are lots of situations where people can mobilise and go to hospital

It's not that simple. I am an A&E doctor and urgent care GP with 20+ years' experience, so I am pretty good at knowing which patients are seriously ill. But I don't have a crystal ball.

Take people with chest pain, for example. It is impossible to tell whether it 's a heart attack without a blood test in A&E (only a minority actually have the classic symptoms). If I see someone with chest pain in my GP role, I know that statistically, there is only a small chance they are having a heart attack and, of the minority who are having a heart attack, only a small percentage will suddenly deteriorate. But some will. Those people can potentially be saved from death if they are transported by an ambulance, with a defibrillator and crew trained in CPR, able to transport them urgently to a hospital with the facility to re-open the artery to the heart.

I know the system is abused but in fairness I think a lot of people call an ambulance for a break or fall as they believe it's dangerous to move and need to keep still till paramedics arrive.

I also agree there are taxi drivers who would refuse certain people, such as a woman in labour.

I agree op. Having been in many police control rooms and heard some of the crappy ridiculous reasons people call the police, I can well believe it's the same with ambulances.

One of the papers had something about loved ones taking patients to A&E as a headline. That is what should happen anyway, nothing outrageous about that. Generally as long as its safe and you can people should definitely make their own way wherever possible.

They could if the ambulance was to arrive within a reasonable time frame. As is realistically for most people it will be quicker to get to hospital via other means and hope you get triaged within a reasonable time frame.

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow that will be telephone appointments then, not proper ones.

That really isn't as great as you seem to think.

What is your role?

Working in a hospital isn't much good if you're not medically trained to make these decisions! You are arguing on this thread with an a and e doctor who manages to sound like they have professional expertise to back up their position. What is yours except that you 'work in a hospital'? Presumably if you had a role that was relevant you would have mentioned it by now.

I'm a specialist nurse. I'm not arguing with anyone. Everything I've said has been from examples I've seen in A&E.

I full appreciate and accept every situation is different, my point is that many people use the ambulance service when they don't necessarily need to. I have seen this first hand so don't need people telling me it's not true, whether they're an A&E doctor or whoever.

No, that’s a sweeping generalisation. My elderly mother collapsed in the street and was told no ambulances available. And left her there for an hour on the pavement in the rain ; strangers carried her home as she couldn’t walk. That was 8 months ago and happened again today. She didn’t even bother calling 999. My elderly dementia suffering dad called 111 and was #100 in the queue got an automated service - which he can’t navigate. Couldn’t get hold of an GP either. The system is broken. It doesn’t work anymore. And that’s not all down to people abusing the system - although I’m sure there are people who do. It would appear that they have made it as difficult and inaccessible as possible. I don’t know anybody who spuriously calls ambulances! We need a radical overhaul of the NHS , and I doubt any politician has the balls to do it. Just the usual lip service.

If this happens a lot, this woman needs a Careline fall detector and a support network of people that will be called automatically if it is triggered.

Same as half of those in a&e or the walk in centres.

I took dd to urgent care as requested by school due to an accident at school. We were there just over 7 hours in total. The amount of people who if they hadn’t been called in within 1-2 hours just walking out clearly not important or an urgent or emergency need to stay.

I can’t say over ever been in an ambulance or know anybody who has unless it was an elderly fall needing admittance for a few days/week stay, everyone gets driven by friends/family/partner or drives themselves. Even when I ended up admitted for emergency surgery I didn’t call an ambulance.

My cousin is a call handler, over 50% of the calls are from people who either don't need any treatment, need to see a gp or could take themselves reasonably to a&e on public transport even if they don't have a car. The ones that annoy them the most is people asking for paracetamol, cough medicine etc as if they are a pharmaceutical delivery service.

The people who have fallen and need help they are very happy to help

Watch 'Ambulance' and you can see many callers don't really need an ambulance and could get themselves to hospital.

"I understand sometimes can't even afford taxis to hospital"

I assume you never voted for benefit cuts OP

Unless it's potentially life or death or you are so will that you need highly urgent attention then I think most people can use other appropriate services.

There are a whole host of issues though. At the most basic is that as a country we aren't very good at nutrition and exercise. Elderly people have more falls as they didn't keep active throughout lives and Into older adulthood.

People go to A&E much too often/ easily. Again, life threatening emergency or so I'll you can't wait for a GP or so injured that that leg is most definitely not getting better without urgent intervention (breaks, lacerations requiring stitches).

I honestly think that first step is an improvement in general public health. Lower obesity, increased exercise and fruits and veg intake. Next after that is more encouragement around attending the appropriate setting.

Small fee for GP appointment and A&E attendance so people think first. Incentives for improving health. Fines for missed appointments

Maybe we need some sort of public information campaign about when calling 999 (or your GP or going to A&E) is appropriate rather than leaving it to ranty people on MN.

I sure there are some people calling just for fun but most are stressed/worried people just trying to access help.

I've called an ambulance 7 times in my life. 4 were when I worked in school, two for severe asthma attacks, one a child who lost consciousness and one for a head injury. Probably for all of those, if I'd been the parent I'd have driven them to A&E.

The other were for dying DH in severe pain and on the advice of GP/hospice.

No I didn't not. I have never and would never vote Tory in my life. I am very left wing albeit less so than as a teenager.

I have been in an ambulance once in my life. I had kidney stones but didn't know it at the time and thought I was dying. We spoke to a call handler who sent a local first responder, then an ambulance. They checked me over , established it wasn't something immediately life threatening (I was having stroke symptoms), gave me oramorph then took me to hospital - at that point I just waited in the waiting room like everyone else.

So the travelling to hospital, I could have done myself - but the checking over, establishing it wasn't a stroke or similar, and giving immediate pain relief, was worth calling the ambulance for.

What taxis are people going to use The taxi drivers who quit due to the lockdowns??

I agree. The amount of people who complain about ‘waiting hours’ for an ambulance who can drive and mobilise the patient into a car. What are you waiting for?! People on a previous thread criticising how even if home births get cancelled how will labouring women get to hospital…I’ve never known a woman going to hospital by ambulance unless a sudden birth or emergency situation (no one I’ve known).
I used to work in A&E and people would walk out the ambulance into the waiting area and wait to see the OOH GP that they had been triaged too. They’d then complain when we offered to book them a taxi home as they expected a paid ambulance.
It is ridiculous frankly!

Going by my hospital, our A&E was only slightly less busy with far more making there way in using cars and public transport, so I definitely think there’s merit OP. One of our crews yesterday were really disappointed yesterday after a patient admitted they told 999 they had crushing chest pain and found breathing hard. They had lied to get an ambulance out so it does happen more than people realise.

Who can only do so on the basis of the information provided by the caller. A minority of whom know the trigger words that will get them bumped up the queue by making things sound more serious than they really are.

The issue as I see it, is that most of us aren't medical professionals and the result is that we don't always know what we need which is why we have trained professionals like doctors and paramedics to tell us.

My son broke his leg earlier this year - he insisted he was fine so I let him get an early night with painkillers. In the middle of the night he woke up white as a sheet, shaking all over and completely unable to put any pressure on his leg - it was really scary. He needed an ambulance and we got one within an hour. He was basically having a traumatic response due to a severe fracture. There was no way I could have known that or dealt with it appropriately.

I don't think we should be encouraging people to not call the ambulance service - from what I remember I was asked a lot of questions about the severity of his symptoms and I'm sure they're qualified to tell the difference between people abusing the system and those who really need it.

In saying this, all of these problems causing strikes have been brewing for years. The problems really need to be addressed instead of trying to distract from the real issues.

Trouble is that when a request is put out to think before calling, little old Doris doesn't want to be a bother so will not phone in with something that turns out to be quite serious.

The piss-takers meanwhile carry on as before.