(i know i probably am) To be disapointed that whilst at my local shopping parade all around me were foreign.

[MAMAZON]

I don't want to start a UCM type thread but it just struck me how prety much everyone i saw at the shops earlier was foreign.

no one seemed to be speaking English at all.

I do think many companies are taking the oppootunity to exploit workers. If they can pay polish or whatever workers less then they will do so. Its neither fair to UK workers who can't get a toe in and its not fair to Polish workers, being paid less than the going wage either. I imagine there's a fair few who sit thinking they'd like to settle here with their families but are thinking 'the wages are so shit we could never afford it'
In a way its employers, with no real loyalty to country or workers that create the situation. Fast profit is always at the forefront, not what might happen in the future.
And its Govts that pick up the peices around the wrold when a company closes in order to open somewhere cheaper.

but the Daily Mail blames immigrants
that should of been on the end but my finger slipped.

A couple of points:

the situation with lots of immigrants coming in is in no way unique to the UK; there is a similar situation in most of Europe (not to mention all the refuges in parts of Africa and Asia)

it is very unlikely that those cultures will end up totally swamped; dominant cultures tend to have a great capacity for assimilating newcomers- look at 19th century US for instance

in other countries, a fair proportion of these immigrants are English- they have to put up with you (and don't imagine that English ex-pats are unusually good about adopting local customs)

English is also the lingua franca used between different groups of immigrants

it is therefore particularly unlikely that the English language and culture will be swamped

the fact that people use a foreign language when out with the family doing their Saturday shopping tells you nothing at all about their linguistic capacity

I teach at an English university, my scholarly papers are written in English and I work as a proof-reader of English academic texts- so I don't think I am exactly contributing to the erosion of the language

my children speak English at school and nobody thinks of them as anything but English

we do, however, reserve the right to conduct family conversations in any language that we please

its a fallacy that ee are cheaper than uks ,
in london anyway.

in the last 6 months we have had jobs completed in our home by slovacs and poles, had quotes from uk men also. we paid the going rate, the reason we went with them is that they gave much shorter times to complete the jobs. room refurb, built in cupbaords, laying wooden floor, uk time 3 weeks, plolish time 5 days.

what i do find annoying, which we have just found out from one polish man is the boss so to speak charges uk rate but pays them polish rate, he is paid £30 a day, 8am til 5pm.

I live in a very culturally diverse part of London and am used to feeling in the minority when I go shopping. At my local post office, when I queue it is quite usual for me to be the only 'white british' person there. My nearest internet cafe (if I need to go online in my work lunchtimes) is run by Somalis and I am often the only non Somali person there. It is very welcoming and I have never felt intimidated.

Sometimes being in a minority feels odd, not bad but odd. I find everyone polite and peaceful - just getting on with their own lives.

I do think that gang problems faced by teenagers seem to be exacerbated by the racial mix and also see how tension within certain cultural groups that might originate from outside the UK, has been bought into the UK by some people.

I am not sure where the blame lies, but this IME is a real problem and has lead to murder in my local area, and also causes a lot of general intimidation and threats to secondary school chidren around here.

agree with Almummy. We are in a period of rapid and substantial social change. That has all sorts of effects. Attempts to shut down debate about this topic, or to shout down anyone who dares to comment on it in anything other than a 'Ooh, isn't it fab' way are really, really, unhelpful. And prejudiced.

And as for dominant culture assimilating newcomers... maybe, eventually. But in some places that is not the situation right now and that is uncomfortable. And it may not be the situation for some time - look at the ex-cotton towns of Lancashire

Having said that, the nicest part of London I've lived in was largely Afro-Carribean. I was definitely in a minority in my neighbourhood. But my neighbours were friendly and helpful and actually spoke to each other, and me.

That was a settled immigrant community though, my next door neighbour had come over in the Windrush.

A Polish man was cursing me the other week when I was walking with my DS (who is 15months) along the high street and we were going slow in front of him. Unluckily for him, my dad is Polish and I know a few choice words that I said to the chap - his face was a picture! He smiled at me and shook my hand

Only thing that would bother me is if poeple coming to live here started insisting their cultural rules were obsrved and harassing those who didn't.
I have been called a 'white whore'and told to keep away when walking through a pakistani-asian area because I wasn't covered up. As it was, I was covered head to toe in jeans/t-shirt/long coat/hat and gloves (and ironically enough, I am muslim)
The UK does not have a tradition of women covering themsleves. If you don't like it, then tough.
I've been all over the world and always tried to respect the rules of other cultures (and learn some of the language) even if I didn't agree with them, why can't people moving here do the same?

ALMummy -i have not read any storming posts, more genuine exploration of OP which Mamazon herself wanted deleted

Message withdrawn

Ah NMC why didn't I know you were Muslim? All those blardy Islam essays last year you could ahve done for me.....

if you go elsewhere, you should respect the culture into which you step. That's the same if British poelpe go abroad though- and the number of Brits refusing to wear cover up when we visited the Mosque in Moroco was amazing- and then they got abusive because they weren't allowed in (wasn't strict dress code btw, loose trousers, t-shirt and a cardi wewre fine- at the cardiff Mosque all theya sked of me was a normal outfit and scarf which was fine I thought- slightly mroe uncomfy about the Hindu temple where we had to declare if we were having our period but well, they fed us. And I like food ).

So yes I agree that poeple shouldn't be imposing their cultures on the nation into which they migrate but when brits go abroad it would be good if they did the same, it's hard to ask of others what so many people are not prepared to do themselves, iyswim.

Just out of interest, Dad was trying to find a Polish phrase book so he could communicate with the chaps where he works, couldn't find one anywhere. Not exactly a sign we're reaching out as a nation is it? If there was a demand, the shops would stock them.

I don't do essays Peachy. When I laid down my pen at the end of my student years I swore I'd never write another one

better now?

I reckon we need an alien invasion to make us all see that we're human and all desreve the same chances to live somewhere pleasant with decent conditions (which makes me boggle that some immigrants come through Germany and keep going. I thought the german transport system and standard of living were a million times better than the UK. I'd of stopped there)
Aliens would stop us being mean about fellow humans.

I live in a very culturally undiverse part of Derbyshire, though was raised in inner city Manchester and know the places well.

It can be unsettling when there is a widespread change, and a sudden one in your local community. The only thing that gets people's backs up is when the changes are portrayed in nasty terms designed to give these people a hard time.

needmorecoffee, it wasn't good enough for me, even the bakeries and the public transport couldn't hold me back
I had to come here to steal one of the British men available, and now I'm sponging off the system too with all that DLA and CA I get

I wonder how the Spanish feel about the decrepit British pensioners using the Spanish health system....

I was in the town centre yesterday, and evrybody who begged for money werent white britsh and could barely speak english.
It must be a nightmare not to have a home.

But there isnt enough money to provide accomodation, and health services now. In my local college night classes are being reduced as the money is used to fund people to learn english

you can steal all the British men you want geekgirl, I married a foreigner
The Carers Allowance thingy made me laugh. Amazing that people think getting 17p an hour for 24 hour, 7 day care, compensates for the loss of a job and tell you how lucky you are getting CA!
Having lived in a foreign country (yes, we were economic migrants as research jobs pay shite in the UK) I admire those who give up so much to do it. After 2 years abroad I came home despite the salary 5 times what we would get here because I missed family, friends and home.

It is more of the assumption that her post was meant in a negative way. Any posts about race almost always seem to be taken that way. When in reality it is and should be a subject that is up for discussion just like any other. No you are right not all posts were like that but some were and I have seen it in other threads. When I speak of this I dont just mean MN but also places I have worked or people I know through my sons school etc. You have to pick your words extremely carefully when it comes to race for fear of being labelled racist, which leaves you unable to express any negativity you may have, which in turn leads to more resentment I feel. There ARE going to be differences of opinion between ethnic groups, its a fact and some of them will be because of misunderstandings of a persons ethnicity on either side. At the moment I dont feel it is possible in some circles to explore these differences properly without being labelled a racist if your opinion is in any way negative, which is ridiculous. I am not saying that happened in this thread but it could so easily have gone that way as it does many times in RL.

Someone also said that expressing concern about our countrys resources and other matters pertaining to immigration would not make you racist but I am sorry it does to some people. It is though an alarm goes off, when race is mentioned and the actual content of a remark or opinion is not seen, just that fact that it could be interpreted as negative and must be stamped on immediately.

I meant it shouldnt make you be seen as a racist- (assuming the statement is folowed by I wish there were more resources rather than send the foreigners back obviously!). there'll always be people who jump top comnclusions about other people- we cant stop that.

needmorecoffee, I've had the same experience of being insulted in the street while walking through an area with a high population of Pakistani immigrants (where I happened to live at the time). These horrible men even had a go at my little sister when she was wearing her school uniform. It was hardly bloody alluring - blazer, jumper, kilt - I think they just wanted to have a go at any woman who wasn't conforming to their demands on what they saw as their patch.

To be fair though clueless (and Momma ), I did say "some", and not all dissenters, and I didnt say "PC nutter", I said "exceptional political correctness".

hi VVVQV!

night VVVQV! xx

Are you also disappointed to see all the foreign workers in our hospitals, cleaning our buildings, corner shops, washing up the dishes in the restaurant etc?

Of yabvu and ignorant.

Ummm I think it depends on where u live in the UK b4 u judge what this woman is saying. For some of u townies you have no idea what its like to be surronded by foreigners 24/7 and to say polish people are on less wages is a joke my whole office is foreign they get paid the same as me. Also did you know that alot of polish Mums leave there kids in poland with there familys and still get paid Child benefit and family credit even thou there kids live in a different country hmmm what a joke anyways yeah long live the queen and the goverenment and speical thanks to Tony Blair for fucking up the country and swarming London with half of Europe LOL.