Any police about? Need input

[MolliciousIntent]

Need some information about what rights people have vis a vis the police... If they ask to question you in relation to a crime, are you allowed to say no? What can they do if you say no? What happens if you refuse to answer their questions? Can you be arrested for not cooperating?

Ionn

Did I not say that miles upthread?

But generally- unless it's a major crime - like murder - the courts do not summons hostile witnesses .

I've only had court summons one hostile witness in 14 years and she was the victim - the suspect was recalled to prison . And actually - once she had time to think , she willingly gave a statement- she just needed to be talked through the process and what was likely to happen at court .

So dont scare monger . Most times (99.9%) if a witness doesn't want to get involved they do t have to . A witness and a victim are two different things . But no one can be forced to give a statement. Yes a court judge can summons a witness or victim but in reality that very very rarely happens.

Ionn

I am surprised by the amount of negativity aimed at the police here.

As others have said, there is good and bad in every walk of life. When an officer does wrong, in professional or private life, or even if they are accused of doing wrong, they are suspended or put on desk duty awaiting an investigation, then it goes to a public hearing and it is put out to the media, precisely because the constabulary wants to see demonstrate that they are whiter than white and will hang their own members out to dry. That is why you hear so many cases of coppers being caught doing something wrong - because there is full transparency.

I almost went in full time and in the end served as a special constable for a couple of years. 95% of the coppers I worked alongside were dedicated, professional and in it for the right reasons. Some were older and very jaded but that is what the job does to you. The occasional one was in it for the power, and nobody else liked them either, but someone has to actually cross a line and do something wrong before they can be suspended.

As someone else said, it is a shocking how few police there are and how much has to be prioritised and some things that are not priority end up at the bottom of an ever growing list. I have been on a shift where myself and another copper (both in the same car so only one unit) were all that was available on response for an entire district..... there should have been 10 but there was sickness, holiday and the rest were tied up guarding crime scenes. All you can do is drive around a lot so it looks like there are more of you than there are. The majority of each shift was spent going to domestics - 2-3 per shift - or looking for vulnerable missing people. The moment someone is arrested, that is 2 hours lost driving them to custody, waiting around and booking them in...assuming the same officers don't then stay on to wait for the duty solicitor to show up and question them.

None of that leaves much time for response officers to attend burglaries or ASB calls. That is the reality, if you are not happy with that service complain to your MP, because the police are certainly not happy with it either.

In the UK they are most definitely NOT allowed to lie and if they do and get a confession as a result, the defence solicitor can apply to have the confession thrown out.

A good friend witnessed a very violent crime. Immediately after they gave a witness statement, while still in shock - literally covered in blood of the victim- at the scene.

later transpired that the police were involved and friend was given hell on the witness stand over inconsistencies’ in the on the scene witness statement versus the one they gave later when it was calmer and non-police were there for support.
friend - who had zero connection to the victim, crime or police - was made out to be a liar.
Thenpolice treated her appallingly.
The jury did believe friend, and other witnesses however and the police office involved was held to acct.

I wouldn’t not voluntarily speak with police without a solicitor or another adult witness present. And that’s before you bring in the institutional racism, homophobia and misogyny.

‘In the UK they are most definitely NOT allowed to lie and if they do and get a confession as a result, the defence solicitor can apply to have the confession thrown out.’

They absolutely are allowed to make it seem like they know more than they do, that there is implicating evidence, that your buddy is blabbing etc
yes a defence lawyer could say a full confession drawn out by a blatant lie should not be admissible - but it’s more subtle than that. Police interviewing aren’t that stupid, they’re experienced officers who know the boundaries.

Lucy Letby trial is ongoing and she hasn't been found guilty of anything at the moment

Who the hell said police can lie to get a confession ?

Maybe in the movies. Certainly not in real life!

This isn't true vicar. It's just not.

some Police lie all the time. I've had a policeman stand in front of me and lie to my face (as I now know) to dissuade me from taking action.

My only experience of the police was a very poor one, and it did not involve a crime. So I would always consult a lawyer before engaging with the police.

So if you have had a police officer lie to you - you confront it and challenge it .

Confessions cannot be taken under duress . They wouldn't stand up in court .

That was the accusation- that police lie to get a confession.

If you've been lied to - report it . Ask for the officers details . Speak to their Sgt . But have proof - were you lied to or did you hear something you didn't like ? There is a difference- and people lie to police all the time so if an officer was recounting something they've been told - or you've been accused of - that's not a lie - that's an allegation- and it needs investigation to prove OR disprove.

Police aren't psychic. They go on what people tell them. Then have to try to pick the truth out - people lie all the time to us . Us recounting that allegation to the suspect is standard procedure- you need to know what your accused of whether it's true or a pack of porkies .

So you don't believe me.

I have no proof. I was standing there by myself with two policemen.

It wasn't a matter of hearing what I didn't want to hear. The "offence" of which I was being accused was not actionable by the police. It wasn't a criminal offence.

I was told I would be arrested for something that isn't an offence.

How was I supposed to prove that vicar when there was me and a policeman there?

I didn't have my phone on me and recording because I trusted the police. Now. I would. Because I don't trust them as far as I could throw them and I would always protect myself from them.

Oh and I also had a police officer sit in my house and tell me that an unprovoked physical assault in school wasn't assault and wouldn't be prosecuted as such because it happened in school and our "only option" was to go through the school anti bullying procedure.

But I recorded that one and sat my arse in a police station for a whole day and refused to leave until the duty inspector came to see me. It took almost 6 hours.

No I'm not saying I don't believe you at all .

The more I hear the more I think I'm in the wrong job .

Any wrong doing needs to be reported and acted on .

Who do you report it to when the policemen and their superiors are big mates with the person who called them? When you know they already told you that no one would believe you (about something else) because who were you when the other person was a "fine upstanding member of the community".

I think you don't realise what it's like not to automatically have the police be fair. Not to have the police be impartial.

If it’s an American movie, the police in the US can apparently tell as many lies as they like in interview so that may be where the disconnect comes from.

I thought under common law, you don’t have to give them your name and address 🤔

Well as a witness there is things that can be done, they can 'force' you with a subpoena where you could be cross examined under oath.

If you are found to be deliberately witholding important infomation they can charge you with 'perverting the course of justice' or depending on how involved you are with the suspect possibly even 'accessory' to to crime.

It really depends on the crime, the situation and what you know... if your boyfriend is a suspected murder and you are hiding his whereabouts its obviously going to be much more serious than if you where buying your morning newspaper and spotted a group of 3 local teen troublemakers shoplift some alcohol and told the security gaurd but don't want to be anymore involved.

This is not a question for the police, it is one for a criminal defence solicitor.

My advice is to say absolutely nothing without legal representation present.

It is your right to say nothing.

Depending on the situation you may be arrested on suspicion of a crime and will be taken into custody for questioning. You cannot refuse this, but you can remain silent and ask for details of a solicitor to contact - they will have a duty solicitor if you do not have your own.
Your solicitor will ask for a disclosure from the police as to why you have been arrested and the evidence against you. Only your solicitor can do this, you cannot.

In other cases you may be asked to attend an interview - which you can decline.

In either case say absolutely nothing and wait for your solicitor to arrive. I cannot tell you how many times people talk themselves into a world of trouble because they start talking without legal representation.

Have you never watched any British tv programmes when someone gets arrested?

Anyway we need more context to answer your question. In some cases I would agree beat not to say anything, in others I would but have no idea what your situation is in order to give you a reply

If they arrest you you have the right to remain silent. Assuming you are the suspect they will use your words to help build a case against you. So get a solicitor abd keep your mouth shut.

If you have done nothing wrong why would you be concerned?

I've given witness statements, they were very friendly and helpful, even picked me up and took me home once, entertaining the kids who had to come with me ... but I was innocent and had witnessed a crime (thankfully the person pleaded guilty so I didn't have to give evidence in court).

If you have done something illegal then either own up or speak to a solicitor

Lol. Charming naïveté.

Dennis Kavanagh did a video for Mumsnet for just this issue.

What women who have been threatened with a 'voluntary interview' AKA 'drop yourself in it whilst we fish for some crime that may have been committed' have found is that if they have evidence they will arrest you. If they don't have evidence then the voluntary interview is where they might get it. So get legal advice if this is offered to you.

And still laughing at the shock horror of the police that a police officer might lie as that's illegal.