Do violinists make decent money?

[Jazz12]

DS (15) is a bright child. Academically strong and a very passionate violinist.

DH and I have always encouraged him to do well in STEM subjects. We’ve gently steered him in that direction since early childhood. He enjoys computer science, is a decent programmer and also likes biology. He wants to get into Tech (DH and I are in this field), he is also considering Medicine. However, I know he is very passionate about violin.

I understand it’ll be amazing to find a career you enjoy. It’s also equally important to make decent money to afford a good quality of life. House prices, bills everything is out of reach for many people (at least where I live) now. Unfortunately, only some fields pay well.

Do violinists earn well?

Just wanted to hear some perspectives before I talk to DS about it.

No, not many of them do
you can be lucky and get a salaried position in an orchestra but it is not a high salary and there’s not much progression
most music college graduates end up doing a combination of teaching and playing I believe.

there are also lots of people who pursue other careers but teach/play on the side to a very high standard

if he enjoys musicology, music gcse, music a level etc there’s also the route of doing an academic music degree at a RG university then going into a graduate profession from there.

Nope, anything in the arts doesn’t pay well at all- only about 0.01% will make it big enough to earn a decent wage doing something like that.

I tell SK to do a job they will find somwhat fulfilling, that pays them well enough that they can use their free time for things they love. The romantic notion of ‘having a job you love, never mind about the money’ is outdated and ridiculous.

lol, no.

The romantic notion of ‘having a job you love, never mind about the money’ is outdated and ridiculous.

Unfortunately I'd agree this. Having a job based on your passion is a guaranteed way to kill that passion. It's very different doing something you love for fun and doing it to pay the bills. Pursue your passions with the pressure.

Some violinists earn well, OP. The well-known soloists certainly do.

The violinists in famous orchestras have a hierarchical structure, related to their experience and ability. Some of them earn very well indeed, but it can take a few years to get up to a high pay grade.

Violinists in good orchestras (as opposed to famous ones) earn significantly less.

withOUT the pressure, that should've said. 🤦‍♀️ Pursue your passions withOUT the pressure.

Music as a career is incredibly competitive and stressful. The liklihood of actually becoming a successful violinist is incredibly low and no it's not well paid. If he genuinely wants a career in music he should be realistic and look at the fall back options if he doesn't 'make it' (teaching music etc). He may still choose to pursue this if he feels passionately enough about it and he certainly shouldn't drag himself through a STEM degree he hates but he should be realistic about the end result.

Someone who is bright, works hard and a decent person will do well in any field.

what does your DS want to do? He could do music GCSE/A-Level as they’re classed as a ‘core/academic’ subjects.

What kind of lifestyle does he want to live? Would he be ok with travelling/life on the road? I knew someone who wanted to be an actor but didn’t want to leave home/our town…. Last time I heard of him he was running the local vape shop.

You’ve also got to the think that people don’t necessarily have one career these days. Very rarely do people stick in their career paths that they chose at 14.

what involvement does he have in music so far? is he just doing his grades or part of the NYO?

Not particularly. If you get into an orchestra and that's a big if, you're looking at 30k. Most of the time though you will be not a full time employee though.
At 15 though has he done his grade8, been in nat youth orchestra, junior conservatoire? If not, it's prob already too late. If he has and keen, then you need to be looking at one of the conservatoires to stand him in good stead of making it rather than uni.
All sounds rather negative - I have a music degree and teach piano so I'm doing what Iove but it's not great pay..

I have a few professional musician friends . . .

Orchestral violinist whose wife pays the bills

Music teachers who are Cathedral choir members on the side

Composer and conductor who lives off a trust fund

All love what they do though.

Ps I'm in a family of professional musicians so if you want to pm me then feel free 🙂

Unless my child was hellbent on a career in sports or music, I would be firmly guiding them into subjects with better career prospects. Better, as in more positions available with better average salaries, longevity of career and less of a cutthroat competitive environment.

It doesn't sound to me as though your son's particularly fussed about fiddling for a living so don't even go there. Although having said that, every time I see an orchestra play I think "nothing could make a parent prouder." I also think that it's often an inherited career path (i.e. parents are musicians or similar) and that because the pay is so poor it's generally only a career option for kids from privileged backgrounds.

My niece is a very talented musician. Wind instrument not violin. She studied maths and music at university and did exceptionally well. She’s just been offered a place at a conservatoire, and is going to give music a go. I hope she succeeds but if not she’s got an excellent degree and I’m sure will do well in other fields. She’s not in it for the money though.

The weekly piano lesson we pay for is £40 an hour (not London) so assuming violin lessons pay similarly doesn't sound too bad to me. Self employed so no sick pay or holiday pay.

I think people would combine giving lessons - not only in evenings and weekends but in schools- with paid playing in orchestras/weddings etc to combine to a decent wage.

Whatever your son studies at uni teaching violin or playing e.g. weddings would be a good way to supplement his student income.

I had a client who played violin (or something similar) at a big London hospital as part of play therapy for children.

I think it paid around 30k, but I'm not sure if that was for full time or not.

I house shared with a woman who was a very good violinist, had studied to a high level and had played in an orchestra when she was at uni age I think (she had studied music at uni and she was still involved in some projects with people from that network)

She did part time jobs in the week and was self employed at weekends playing at weddings. She occasionally taught violin in schools but they were short contracts. The wedding gigs were good pay for the number of hours worked, but not enough to live on and obviously required working Saturday nights most commonly so wouldn't have suited everyone. She loved being a musician but was very clear that she had made sacrifices for what was her passion.

I tried to become a violinist and went to conservatoire. It was a huge shock- practically everyone else had done junior conservatoire etc and a huge amount of orchestral experience. It was enormously pressured and I went from feeling like it was my 'thing' to being the absolute bottom of the pile. I worked very hard but just couldn't keep up with the expected standard and dropped out. Even my friends who were the most talented and able in my cohort don't earn much and do a lot of peri work. A large proportion have gone on to do PGCEs and become secondary music teachers.

My advice would be only to go for it if he has an incredible drive to practise and likes the sound of the alternative career paths after graduating, because there's a good chance that he won't be able to make a living as a violinist. I didn't even consider this (switched to a university and completed a music degree) and came out of the whole experience wishing I'd done something else. I don't mean to be discouraging because some of my friends loved it, but it is important to have a plan B from that type of study that he's enthusiastic about if things don't work out.

My daughter is pursuing a career in the arts, and is currently at university studying this subject. It has been something she has been passionate about since she was very young, and we have never "encouraged' or "gently steered" her away from this passion towards those STEM subjects that she also did well in but didn't enjoy. She has worked incredibly hard up until this point and continues to do so. She is also realistic about her chances of making a good living purely doing this, and accepts that she will likely have to supplement her income by teaching or other roles in the industry.

If she hadn't been so driven and put so much blood, sweat and tears into her chosen field, perhaps we would have suggested that she consider a more lucrative one, but I can't imagine actively trying to guide your child away from something they love and which they are good at, and adds to our society.

Lol this really made me laugh

What about teaching?

The professional musician I know supplements her income working in Poundland.

She has a stellar CV - prestigious institutions/ fellowships/ training places/ prizes at open competitions but has really struggled to make it as a professional.
it’s a gig economy, with crap pay and lots of travel.

if they get an engagement with a big orchestea it's ok.

if not he might need to supplement income for example by teaching.

he could look into sound engineering - mixing both passions.

My son is music mad and my husband showed me this meme which struck a chord

They probably don’t, but neither to STEM graduates who did the degree because their parents made them, because the likelihood is that the person then wouldn’t try hard as they’d have no interest in the topic.

I’d ask him what he wants to actually do and what his backup is and support him with those.

Would your DS be interested in something like this?

www.surrey.ac.uk/undergraduate/music-and-sound-recording-tonmeister

Excellent, very highly esteemed degree that combines music and STEM subjects.