AIBU to think this might be it for the UK and will never get better?

[Desperado40]

I am sorry for a very pessimistic view, but I feel we are stuck in a downward spiral in the UK. Is it just me, or does anyone else think that we will be stuck in this loop with the effects of Brexit and a decade of austerity taking decades to ever recover from (if ever?).
If anyone has a better outlook, please let me know.

As others have said, go anywhere in the world and you'll hear the same complaints and same issues you're experiencing here. That's not to say things are great, and there are many UK specific problems we need to address but I think you've lost a lot of perspective...

The very fact that you are living in the UK is the equivalent of winning a decent amount on the lottery. There are billions of people worldwide who don't have anything like the level of security, freedom or wealth as most in this country do and while I don't particularly rate the UKs long term outlook, I'm grateful that a genetic fluke means I was born here rather than any number of worse situations the world over. I encourage everyone I know to take this outlook because it's pretty privileged of us to complain about some of the things we do given the sheer amount of awful things taking place in the world at any given time.

YANBU. We live in Scotland and DH works in the energy industry. I’m self employed. We’re seriously considering moving to Norway (where the rest of his team is) next year.

It's better than a lot of places, not just war-torn places like Syria, but perhaps nice places like Germany and France. Otherwise no one would ever come here

Family connections, language, ability to work illegally, its a small % overall that come here, actually lower than pre Covid.

btw you are aware Germany welcomed in 1m Syrian migrants, the vast majority of whom work and contribute to their economy and now they have over 750k Ukrainians living there, UK has allowed in 190k.

But has opened the doors for up to 5m people from HK to come here.

People do come here. London is a good draw for migrants

And other I’m sure, but it’s what I know well

Or immigrants.. whichever term is the least loaded

When I walk around my area it’s very diverse, it’s what I prefer

@helford again you're misunderstanding me.
What I'm saying is that I'm sick of seeing the many "UK is shit" threads, and making the point that if we really were that shit, no one would come here. But people do come here, so we can't be that crap. Because if other European countries were SO much better than us, no one would make the perilous journey to the UK. What would be the point, if it was such a dump? But it clearly isn't a dump is it, because people do want to come here.

It's a global thing - of course levels of perceived hardship are relative in terms of infrastructure.

Happened upon a documentary on YouTube yesterday on the Endevr channel called:

"The Rise of the Global Super-Rich and the fall of Everyone Else"

Which looks at what's happening in several countries and also looks back into history so acknowledges the cyclical thing.

Conclusion is we're in a plutocracy with a veneer of democracy, which I can't disagree with.

The argument that it's been worse before and we've survived blah blah, is however somewhat disingenuous because previously these cycles weren't seen or exploited through the lens of the digital age. In terms of technological power and manipulation we're light years away from previous cycles, and some of TPTB think China's social credit and surveillance is just what we all need.

That bothers me.

@OooScotland

have you ever been to Norway?

what do you and your dh offer Norway? ie could you move there?!

I have to say I don't live in the UK now bit o dispair of how the UK now is. I was back last week and I was totally shocked at How expensive everything is and how run down everything is.

It can and must get better.

Where did you go?

Norway? Do you know how expensive it is and how closed Norwegian communities and friendship groups are? Norway has beautiful scenery, high standard of living (based on oil and gas would that bother you) but it's also a lonely place

I lived in Norway and Sweden and had a great time but it is not Utopia

We are going around in circles, you are comparing the UK to Syria etc, if we are such a great place, you d expect Europeans to be flocking to the UK, no? all those extra essential worker visas the HO has allocated filled... but they not.

My own opinion is the UK is totally let down on health, fix that and we would solve a host of other issues here.

From a BBC article:

In a survey of 402 people at the former Calais "Jungle" camp, researchers from International Health found only 12% wanted to remain in France, while 82% planned to go to England.
Of those that wanted to travel to England more than half (52%), said they already had a family member there.
"They have a connection to the UK, they speak some English, they have family, they have friends and people in their networks. They want to come and stay and rebuild their lives,"
says Enver Solomon, chief executive of the Refugee Council.

Which is all what i've said all along.

Norway's a great place to live if you're paid in local currency and like the winter.

Things were much worse at least twice in my lifetime, and they got better.

I wish we could get over populist politics and getting ever closer to mirroring the US. There's a cartoon that crops up regularly about simple answers Vs complex solutions and our politicians promise unicorns and rainbows without have the faintest intention of delivering knowing that once they're in power they can do what they like. Bloody Dominic Cummings and his three work slogans 'Get Brexit Done' 'Oven Ready Deal' etc. Where are the serious people to get things done now.
Liz Truss broke the economy because she and Kwarteng thought it would be an interesting experiment. There's no accountability for these clowns.

Nothing stays the same forever - neither good times nor bad.

Things MAY get worse yet, but sooner or later things will improve, history is testament to that.

unless of course, the world actually ends. Ain't no bounceback from that. In the meantime do what you can to keep going until better times come. Or just sit and cry about how dreadful it all is

I don’t understand why you asked, and, honestly, who do you think you are asking what we can offer Norway? but in order..

Of course I’ve been there. When we were younger we lived in Oslo for ten years with DH’s previous job. As a result of our previous career moves we both speak Norwegian and German.

His current employer (A Norwegian renewable energy research company) has been asking him to join a new team there (not in Oslo) for the past three years. So far he’s chosen to work remotely from Scotland because of Covid and family commitments. I will be able to continue to be self employed in the field of adult education.

Yes, we absolutely could move there (pre approved work visas) and now we’ve got about 15 years left to work were starting to think it would be a great next move for us based on…well, everything, particularly healthcare.

I won’t be engaging any further with this.

I’ve lived in Norway and Germany and of course nowhere is ‘utopia’ - that’s exactly what that word means. Your arguments against are pretty weak though. It doesn’t matter how ‘expensive’ Norway is when the pay is commensurate. And ‘lonely place’? What does that even mean? I live in the Scottish highlands. I think you’d find that pretty lonely if you moved here but would that be better for you because its in the UK?

That so many here feel the need to pooh-pooh total strangers who are deciding to leave the UK says a lot to me. Honestly I’m starting to think that all these people having a go just because I said a move to Norway might be on the cards are just envious of the fact that some people have choices and good prospects in other countries.

And no, the reason Norway has a good economy and a great standard of living doesn’t bother me in the slightest. The past is the past, we’re already doing our bit to improve that situation and getting paid handsomely for it (DH works for a Norwegian renewable energy research company).

I hope you are happy and healthy, and when you’re not, that the ambulance arrives in time. 🙄

I’ve experienced this with Germany.
I lived there for a while and still follow German accounts on social media and read German media and people’s comments - I’m amazed how similar these comments often sound to people complaining about the UK!

I agree.

Yes, and Yes 👍🏼.

And a huge draw is the lack of national identity cards, which many Britons are dead against.
Utter bollocks. Migrants aren't coming here because we don't have ID cards - that's total shite.

I like your spin on this @ArseInTheCoOpWindow . Thanks to all contributors to this post, cynical, positive or other.

Many reasons but the ability to be whoever you want to be is a pull.
I can turn up at any Doctors surgery with a CT bill from a friend and get treatment.

Same with work, we don't have enforcement and again can be anyone, you simply cannot do these things in Europe with the same ease.

There has been research into this.

Identity cards in the UK were withdrawn because of misuse by the police.

That would never happen again, oh no.

www.adamsmith.org/blog/the-abolition-of-identity-cards