To wonder why on earth people still buy from puppy farms?

[hennaoj]

Why oh why do people buy puppies from the likes of Kelly's Kennels and Douglas Hall Kennels?

This is where the poor puppies come from. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32308177
Surely people know that you need to see the puppies mother before buying? Never mind the fact that these puppies won't be dna health tested.

Dogs that have been rehomed more than once are often really messed up.

Indeed.

I used to live in the US and volunteered at a county animal shelter. Their criteria were much less strict. There were so many cats and dogs to rehome that they were glad if anyone took them. Unfortunately there would be many 'returns', and quite a few of these ended up being euthanized.

I’ve got three rescue dogs, two are mutts (in the truest sense of the word) and one is an ex-puppy mill breeding Frenchie.

The Frenchie was underweight, had patches of missing fur, frost bite on her ears. She had never been walked beyond her outdoor pen. The fuckers (ex-“owners”) dumped her and another female because she was three and had already had three c-sections and was therefore useless to them.

I have bought from a breeder before—one where I met the parents, had to give umpteen references, had a home check etc.—and if anyone isn’t up for rescuing a dog, I always insist that they grill a breeder and never for the love of god buy online.

I think this is true. I’m a Brit, but live in the US. Those cross breed mongrels still exist here because there’s such a homeless dog problem in the South.

I did DNA tests on my two mutts. One is an apparently a mix of five breeds and the other is seventeen. I have to say, they’re unbelievably healthy dogs.

I did DNA tests on my two mutts. One is an apparently a mix of five breeds and the other is seventeen. I have to say, they’re unbelievably healthy dogs.

And this is exactly what is needed for a dog. Not purebreeds, who despite parental testing and clearance are not that robust, or designer crosses of two pure breeds.

I think the point is they turn people who are suitable because they don't meet perfection/ have a rigid set of rules (6ft fence for a Jack Russell)

Because they are thick as shit

Because they want to buy the latest mongrel fad breed and pay over the odds for it.

No ethical breeder would be breeding cross breeds, like all these doodles etc

it's destroying the pure breeds of dogs and soon some breeds will be lost if we don't be careful. We should be protecting breeds not destroying them.

These breeders are just in it for the money and the customers are clueless.

@tunthebloodyalarmoff absolutely!

Thick and absolutely complicit in the abuse of the animals. I have ended friendships with such incredibly cruel and stupid people. They make me sick.

I tried for over 2 years to re-home a dog via about 15-20 rescues. I live rurally in a house with land, I have older DC, one of whom is mostly home educated and I'm self employed so home most of the time.

All except one turned me down without even speaking to me because our garden isn't securely fenced - whilst this is technically true, the actual "garden" is in fact only a very small portion of our land which extends to 30 acres of meadow, orchard, and fields - all enclosed with stock-proof fencing. We are nearly a mile from a tarmacked road, and our farm backs onto a large woodland nature reserve. I tried to explain that I was happy to keep a dog on a lead to cross the garden and only let it off once in a secure field with the gate closed, but not one rescue wanted to hear it. I tried sending in a screenshot of the OS map showing where the house is and how we would be able to only let a dog loose in secure fields, but that didn't help either.

One rescue did agree to do a video home check, but then turned me down because of our existing animals (1 cat, 2 peacocks, some chickens and a few sheep).

I refused to even consider buying a dog from a breeder for a long time as I was concerned about puppy farming and also the money being asked - £1.5-2k for a puppy? Jog on!

And then a friend mentioned my search to her parents, who were breeding one litter from their working border collie (crossed with a working black Labrador). They had several homes lined up already but contacted me and said they'd let me know if anyone changed their minds. We got lucky, and for £400 (including jabs, microchip, and 4 weeks insurance) we now have the Best Dog In The World ™️, raised by people who genuinely adore her mum and took the time and care to give her the very best start. They have no plans to have another litter (in fact I think her mum has since been spayed) and every single puppy went to people they took the time to talk to, to question, to make a careful decision on. I was the only owner they didn't already know personally, but as their daughter knew me they were willing to consider us.

I'm sure I'll be told it was unethical, a backyard breeder, that if rescues deemed me and my home unsuitable I should have accepted it and remained dogless. But... she is so happy, so healthy, she truly is living her best life here with us, she gets woodland walks every day, she spends hours following us round while we are doing farm shit, she gets fed properly and always gets the broccoli stalk and has been an absolute joy to train. And, dare I say, she has brought us so much joy...

To have a dog from a rescue you have to live in a modern box which has a squarish garden with a 6 ft fence round it, our garden and various fences around it is not appropriate for this. We may meet the other criteria as we have no children or cats and are retired but probably not as we are retired so that would probably not be deemed appropriate either

Im sure being stuck in rescue/kennels for months on end really doesn't make for happy dogs! It makes for highly stressed dogs who often then develop destructive/aggressive coping mechanisms!

Cockapoos have been around since the 50s. A rescue dog is a massive gamble, far bigger than any cross breed for which you can research thoroughly breed traits to be sure you can cope with the worse.

Enormous miserable puppy farms are the extreme, there is a whole lot in between that and the other end of the spectrum. All breeders are doing it for money and many many shouldn’t be from home breeders to the supposed KC pure bred breeders. We saw a few for pure breeds advertised as such we ran for the hills.You use your common sense and research, research, research.

Um... not being funny but that’s a terrible example, Jack Russells can easy clear a lower fence.

@SelkieSeal

Your options re a secure garden were to either put that field on the application form as your garden, or secure off part of your actual garden. I applied for a dog once where they stopped taking applications after 600 arrived in one morning, they aren’t going to stop to work out that you’re being very exact about the word garden.

Existing animals though, yes, they are very strict about that, they quite often have very little background information about dogs and they can’t just go, yeah... should be ok, because if the dog starts attacking your other animals, not only does that dog then need removed quickly and another home found, with a new behavioural issue they need to declare, but they’ve at the very least allowed your existing animals to be stressed out too, if not injured or killed. Most rescues will only rehome with other animals if they know absolutely that the dog in question has lived with them before with no issues.

It took me 2 years to adopt my current dog because I have a cat, it’s frustrating, but that doesn’t make it wrong.

Nope

i live rurally with a pretty odd garden set up, when we first moved in, I put stock fencing where there would be gaps and across the bottom of hedges and built small bits of 6ft wooden fencing to stop access to the largest bit of “garden” which is unsecured and would have cost a fortune to secure....

That’s fine, they’re not looking for you to exercise your dog in the garden, just somewhere safe they can go to the toilet.

The rescue home assess dogs into different categories such as
Can/cannot be homed with cats, other dogs etc
Need experienced owners of this breed
Must be only animal
No children under5/10/15 etc
Your lifestyle, job, how often it will be left alone/ walked etc.
It's nothing to do with how much land you have. I know someone with a small yard who rehomed two dogs a few years ago because their lifestyle, experience and everything else fitted with those dogs
It's to get a good match and to weed out the irresponsible owners.
People going in demanding "that one because it's cute", with not a thought to lifestyle, behaviour, where the animal is going to fit in aren't going to get very far and rightly so.

Zipps that’s really good. It’s not about what you want. It’s about what the dogs need. They want to avoid failed adoptions.

The ones costing anything like that are almost exclusively the dodgy sources.

Nobody is buying puppy farmed dogs because they’re cheaper than well bred ones, they’re often twice the price from a puppy farm.

Good breeders are trying to get a dog for themselves that’s suitable for whatever it is they use their dogs for - they sell the extras at the going rate for that breed because giving them away or selling them cheap isn’t a good idea for dog welfare, there are lots of terrible reasons people look for cheap or free dogs. But for breeds with bigger litters that’s about 1k, smaller closer to 2k... there’s very few that’d be even close to 3k.

If they’re lucky, have a big litter and everything goes fine medically they might finish with a bit of a profit, but you’re looking at spending at least 3 to 4K to breed a litter properly, plus 8 weeks of looking after and socialising puppies, you can double or triple that cost if there’s any medical complications.

When it’s a litter bred to make money, they cut costs and charge more - because that’s how they get profit.

Good breeders aren’t breeding several times a year though.

I was talking to a couple of breeders for a breed I was interested in before I adopted my current dog, they’ve each had one litter in 3 years.

and to be dead honest, if you can’t afford to save up that much then it’s a pretty good indication that you can’t afford a dog, because my perfectly healthy not particularly large dog costs easily 1k a year, on food, insurance, vaccinations etc.

Totally hate puppy farms, but to answer your question:

1. Because rescue centres are way too fussy and intrusive, insisting on home inspections and refusing to let people have dogs, particularly puppies, if they have young children or haven’t owned a dog before.
2. Because puppy farms lie. They don’t say “We are evil would you like to buy a mistreated dog” they advertise on gumtree / pets4homes with a photo of a puppy in a cute basket and say “Our beloved family dog has had her first litter, 5* homes only plz” and then you view the dog and see it ‘mum’ and only an expert would notice that the ‘mum’ is not lactating and has clearly never given birth. Happened to my friend.

To be fair, the article linked is 7 years old, and whilst puppy farming is still a problem, I do think that many people are better informed than they were.

That said - and to be clear I would never use a puppy farm - I do think rescues are often too pedantic. I'll be personal here. I'm disabled, shit mobility since 2017 ( although poor before then). I have a fabulously well trained border collie, trained by me, and a registered service dog. I have continously trained border collies since childhood and I'm 65. My current dog is from an ISDS line from one of my earliest dogs. I have a house with 2 acres of land, fenced in. My dog gets an average of 12 kilometres of exercise daily split into two walks. He's the healthiest dog my vet had ever seen. I'll leave out the mental games and all the rest...

I would be turned down by EVERY rescue agency going.

The perverse thing? I'm a volunteer for the Dogs Trust and my role, as a qualified behaviouralist, is supporting difficult adoptions!

I'm not remotely a fan of the KC, or mass breeding. But your argument isn't sustainable. Which is why so many people ignore advice.

Average lifespan of a dog, across all breeds, is about 12 years. £2k is about £3 a week. How much do people spend weekly on make-up, clothes hobbies etc? Pet insurance is very expensive, and gets more so with the age of the dog. Good quality dog food is not cheap. And that's the thin edge of the age for good owners - toys, games, training, time....

I'd abolish the KC if I could. I hate their selective breeding standards. But a dog is a commitment, in time, money and so much more. People absolutely should be prepared to accept a cost. Dogs are not toys. They cost money. And the scariest thing is that people think they are cheap...

Decent rescues have an army of foster homes that look after dogs in their care until a forever home is found. The dogs are already in a home environment and not stressed. Any in actual kennels are still being assessed or have extra needs.
The rescue my dog is from absolutely spoils the hounds they have in their kennels. They are not pacing in circles all day and laying in their own shit.