To wonder why on earth people still buy from puppy farms?

[hennaoj]

Why oh why do people buy puppies from the likes of Kelly's Kennels and Douglas Hall Kennels?

This is where the poor puppies come from. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32308177
Surely people know that you need to see the puppies mother before buying? Never mind the fact that these puppies won't be dna health tested.

It may be useful to clarify that this breeder is in Northern Ireland and is fully licenced by the local council, Fermanagh and Omagh district council.
It would be useful to look at the level of standards required for licencing. I believe there's a further planning application in at present to extend the farm.

So how do you buy a puppy safely? Not everyone knows this information. Is there a step by step process? If so, what is it? How do you go about searching for a puppy?

I know only a small number have voted, but who are the 14% that say you’re being unreasonable? Please, come back and say why it’s BU.

Our Birman was a buy in via a contact of the first breeder we contacted. I saw the first breeder's house and these were all indoor cats. One reassuring sight was a very old Birman snoozing on a chair - far too old for selling or breeding. Our cat was flown in from another city and came with a list of her favourite foods - chicken and baby rice. We had to agree to getting her spayed. She has been relentlessly healthy with great teeth. I'm fairly sure this wasn't a kitten mill. We did have to wait weeks even though we didn't care about show quality.

I think these places exist simply because rescues make it too difficult to adopt. I have a nice house, no dc and a cat flap to a private garden. Would they let me take a cat? No, because I'm not home all day. Ok then, so I went out and bought a kitten which I loved & cherished for 14yrs.

When we got our dog, I had 2 10 year olds, a 13 year old and 2 cats. I couldn't find any dogs for us. I liked for several months for rescues. I ended up on the dreaded pets 4 homes, but made sure I asked a lot of questions. All the dodgy dog sellers 'disappeared' after I asked certain questions. This was before you needed a license to breed your dog even once so I found someone who had bred using their pet. The dog was a lot cheaper than the 'licensed breeders' ( I didn't even realise they are sometimes puppy farmers).

You start by looking for a breeder and then waiting for them to have a litter rather than looking for a puppy. That usually (though not absolutely always) means you’re going on a waiting list for a planned litter some point in the next year or two.

You’re looking for someone who breeds because they want a puppy from the litter to do whatever it is they do with their dogs (showing, a sport, working).

The breed club is usually the best place to start.

You research all the appropriate health tests for the breed and when you ask about them, they should not only be happy to discuss them, but will have the paperwork for them... they should want to know about your set up and some actually have questionnaires or other things like that to find out about you, but equally should be happy to answer any questions you have. They’ll also insist (sometimes with a contract) that if you ever need to rehome the puppy for any reason that you go to them first.

They’ll likely have more dogs than an average person, lol, but usually between between 5 and 7, 2 or 3 of breeding age, a couple too young and 2 or 3 too old because they’ll only breed every couple of years. Those numbers aren’t exact, but... if they’re breeding several litters a year or they rehome the dogs when they’ve finished breeding dogs then they’re big red flags and if they have loads of dogs then they’re probably kept outside and that again (with the exception of working dogs that you’d probably not want as a pet anyway) that’s a massive red flag.

They’ll usually not own the dad, because it’s hugely unlikely that they just happen to own a dog that has traits that complement the bitch. If they’ve just got two pet dogs they’re breeding for the hell of it, some people are ok with that, but it can cause potential issues for a puppy owner.

Kennel club registration is really basic, but if they’re an eligible breed they should be doing it, there’s no ok reason not to and it means you can check the health tests and the inbreeding coefficient yourself online.

This. They don’t care about it what is right or wrong. All they care about is themselves and what they want.

Please! When I hear Bullcrap about “not everyone can afford a proper breeder dog and they don’t want a rescue dog.”
Really?
What kind of sick attitude is this?
I want it and I want it now.
Some people here need a serious look in the mirror. If they think making an animal suffer because their spoilt little Jayden or Billy wants a dog, they need their head checked.
unbelievable.

@Msgrieves “ Not everyone is middle class and settled and can afford the amount of money it takes to own "ethically". They still want a dog, they can buy a dog, so they will”.

If you can’t afford a dog ethically, you shouldn’t own one!! Why should someone’s desire to own a dog, outweigh the need for a dog to be bred responsibly for health and temperament and the bitch to have a happy life and not be overbred. Good breeders vet the homes their dogs go to, and take them back if the dog owners circumstances change. Half the issue with all the idiots I see with untrained dogs in the parks atm, is idiot owners with breeds that are out of their experience level and who don’t bother to put the work in to train for the dogs and others safety and happiness.

(I currently don’t own a dog because even though my job is okayish, I have a shared backyard that isn’t securely fenced, and I can’t afford a dog sitter, insurance etc, and I’ve spent a lifetime fostering and would love to own again, but I’m not selfish enough to do that at the expense of the dog).

Puppy farm puppies are not cheap puppies. They are a business and charge the 'going rate' or close to it. Sad though that concept is.

Cheap puppies tend to come from someone who's knocked their bitch up with their mate's dog. Irresponsible maybe but not cruel on the scale of farms.

@Notaligned I hope you also reported the puppy farm and the conditions you witnessed to the local council and animal welfare charities, rather than just encourage more breeding by buying a half dead dog?

In the past people often had a bitch who would have one litter. They weren’t breeders and health checks wouldn’t be done and one bitch would be kept to continue the line and later bred from again. No expense would be spared on health care because it was their much loved bitch.
Now it’s considered really bad to have an occasional litter and many people do want to buy without health checks from a pet or small working home. So it leaves expensive breeders and puppy farms or rescues.

Rescues have a high proportion of poorly socialised dogs with "issues", and often are hugely picky about who can have a dog. I don't personally like dogs but plenty of families with children want one & there is often simply nowhere else they can go to get a dog.

Because, IME, people have one of two attitudes when it comes to getting a dog:

1. what can this dog do for me
2. what can I do for this dog

Far too many people want a dog simply because they want one, not because they know they can provide a good home for 15 years. And, many people want (and teach their children to want) immediate gratification. So yes, I could go out today and buy 10 dogs if I wanted. And getting a rescue is a longer process. You have to be home checked, sometimes wait until a suitable dog comes up etc.
It is NOT impossible to get a rescue if you have children, harder of course (and rightly so) but not impossible. I’ve placed loads of puppies and occasionally older dogs, with children under 7 over the years. With rescue centres being as overwhelmed as they are, I do not understand why people keep breeding. And yes YOU might want a (insert the name of any breed here) but none of the dogs in shelters WANT to be there or asked to be bred. They have been badly let down by people and I for one prefer to be a person that steps up to help, rather than a person who adds to the problem.

There is a dog section on here

The first reply said it all.

To add analogies- people buy clothing from Primark even after the deaths of some who make their clothes, people will go on holiday to places where women are very ill-treated (see recent thread on Morocco) or to places where being LGBT is illegal, for example.

While I absolutely do not agree with puppy farms etc I think there’s a lot of people on this thread who were very lucky getting their animals. We were years trying to get a dog. We were constantly offered unsuitable breeds from dogs trust and other rescues We simply wanted a friendly breed to be part of our family. Add in us end I’d up with cats and things got more difficult. Finally we bought a puppy from a site that sells anything and everything. That site has since stopped selling animals but we have the love of our life and our little man has the best life. Great adopting worked for the adopt don’t shop brigade but sadly in our experience it’s only for single people with no kids that have the time, knowledge and experience to help deal with huge breeds or extremely nervous dogs

@MilkyYay if you don’t like dogs, I would assume you haven’t been very involved in dog rescue? Please don’t peddle the crap about rescue dogs having “issues”. Yes, some do, and there are some that will never be suitable to be rehomed, but most just need a bit of TLC and to learn that actually, not all people are horrid. There are also lots that have no issues, but because they aren’t cute puppies or a silly designer breed, they get overlooked.

It will be the same type of people that shop at places like Primark

To add analogies- people buy clothing from Primark even after the deaths of some who make their clothes, people will go on holiday to places where women are very ill-treated (see recent thread on Morocco) or to places where being LGBT is illegal, for example.
some people buy from Primark because they have no choice, they can’t afford to spend huge amounts. Sad but true.

some people buy from Primark because they have no choice, they can’t afford to spend huge amounts. Sad but true.

They shouldn't be getting a dog then

I wasn’t saying about people with dogs. Somebody above said it’s probably the people who shop in Primark.

I think people understandably assume that if the puppy comes from a licensed farm that conditions will therefore be adequate, not amazing perhaps, but not cruel either... so their conscience is clear.

If conditions are as bad as those on here are saying, it's either a matter for law enforcement (ie terms of license aren't being adhered to) or the law needs tightening and MPs need to be lobbied (easy win for an MP to champion such a cause) - I'd be happy to lobby if this was the case.

I've never had a dog, but DH wants one. If I wanted to get one, I wouldn't know where to start. I've just googled "puppies for sale" which I'm sure will lead me straight to a load of puppy farms. But they look fine - I wouldn't be able to tell at first glance there's anything wrong.

I can't even see any with waiting lists, so I'm not sure that's a helpful sign? I wouldn't know what breed of dog I want, so I wouldn't be able to start from a breed search.

When FIL died, the family went on Pets4Homes and picked up a dog for MIL within a couple of days. According to DH that is what they do in their family.

(Not actually looking right now before you shout me down).