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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Title edited by MNHQ at request of OP - Advice pls on labour exploitation law (a minor not being paid at work).

186 replies

Hedgehogscanclimbtrees · 14/12/2022 19:24

This summer after GSCEs my son made a CV and went round our town's local cafes and restaurants asking for work. He was 16 at the time (17 now) and most places said no, he was too young. One place took him on, £5 per hour, mostly kitchen help, washing dishes, helping wherever help is needed, some waiting on tables. He has loved doing this, and he likes the boss ("he's like a friend") and the other members of staff. He has been putting in the hours at weekends and holidays, sometimes doing 10 hour shifts! To be clear this is something he has wanted to do and it helps his self-esteem. We have also kept an eye that his schoolwork does not suffer.
However I have found out that the boss is not paying his staff because of cashflow problems! Apparently payday was always "oh next week" etc. then it came out that the owner is opening another restaurant, so didn't have the cash to pay his (young) staff! My son has been paid some, but we added up his hours and he is owed over £1,000! My husband and I are tempted to go to the restaurant to (politely) tell the owner that he cannot withold our son's earnings but son (understandably) doesn't want us to wade in on his behalf. However he is in a vulnerable position, having been working cash in hand. And being so young (he has tried asking for his wages and keeps getting fobbed off). We told him to say that he cannot continue to work if he is not being paid but now they have simply removed him from the Whatsap group where the rotas were sent out. He went in today to ask why he'd been removed and it seems several people have been removed, apparently because the owner is trying to catch up on his debts to everyone by not rota-ing them... I asked who is serving then and my son didn't know, but he did reveal that Sundays have apparently been busy because sometimes it was just my son and the owner who was juggling cooking and front of house!
I have to say I think any business owner who does not pay his staff is probably going under. What recourse does my son have? Are there laws to protect people like him (and the other young people who have also not been paid)?
I would love to hear from any employment lawyers on here, or re 'Modern Slavery' laws!

OP posts:
DreamingOfAGreenChristmas · 15/12/2022 00:19

OP: listen to PRH47bridge above, who is a lawyer.

Your poor hardworking sim is being badly exploited.

If you want a job to be good for his self esteem make sure that he had a contract, is paid and knows his worth, working 200 hours unpaid over 6 months is being exploited.

Save and collate all the messages rota-ing your son.

I would then approach the restaurant owner and say you have the evidence, and you have legal advice that you can successfully take action but would invite him to pay what he owes before making things difficult, given that your son enjoys his work etc.

And meanwhile talk to your son about what friendship is and how exploitation doesn’t fit. Tell him how you have admired his work ethic, he has done really well, but he deserves to be paid and has a right to be paid.

Verbena17 · 15/12/2022 00:20

Askinforabaskin · 14/12/2022 19:28

If he’s getting paid cash in hand then he is in a precarious position and he might not have much protection.

is there any reason why he choose to do it cash in hand? I doubt he’d be earning enough to pay any tax anyway. Also even for a16 year old, is £5 per hour not massively under the minimum wage?

But the employer is supposed to be doing it through the books properly so that OP’s DS is accruing NI years, which starts at 16.

starfishmummy · 15/12/2022 00:49

Please advise him not to accept cash in hand again (unless its for something one off and he gets the cash when he leaves.)

Volhhg · 15/12/2022 01:16

You and your son need to contact acas asap and follow their guidance or he may never see his pay. There's nothing wrong with accepting payment in cash, however it is up to the employer to provide a pay slip with tax details. Your son has broken no law here and I would contact HMRC. Please do not let people scare you into thinking your son is the tax avoiding party. This is a bad employer and your son should find another

Luredbyapomegranate · 15/12/2022 01:26

Of course he isn’t a slave, he can leave.

Talk to citizens advice about helping you draft a letter, and small claims court if that doesn’t work

cocktailclub · 15/12/2022 06:06

He's definitely not a modern slave. He's free to go.
Have you any idea of true modern slavery? And it's not just not being paid.

Greensky90 · 15/12/2022 06:11

Presumably your Son lives at home, he is not a slave he has a choice.

Why didn't your Son stop working after 2 weeks of no wages. Obviously the company isn't very good.

Catspyjamas17 · 15/12/2022 06:16

I would ask him to quit asap then help him pursue the owner for unpaid salary. DD1 has worked pt for a restaurant chain since she was 16, is only 17 now and gets paid £10+ an hour, same as the staff in their 20s. There are much better jobs out there where they do not exploit youngsters and you get paid on time every week.

panko · 15/12/2022 06:25

MyOpinion1978 · 14/12/2022 19:31

Nope. NMW at 16 is £4.81ph.

Thats shockingly low

Mummyoflittledragon · 15/12/2022 06:37

Just by working at the restaurant, your ds has a contract of employment. A verbal one. The employer is acting appallingly, no contract isn’t great, cash in hand, illegal. Ditto 10 hour days as your ds is only allowed to work for a max of 8 and 40 a week. In your position, yes, I absolutely would intervene. Either go in with the details of all hours not paid and tell the owner your ds wants immediate payment otherwise you will start legal proceedings or write a letter together from your ds, which your ds can hand deliver. At just 17, there is a very unequal relationship and by the sound of it, your ds doesn’t understand the extent to which he’s being exploited. This is probably one of the examples, where showing him the thread may be useful. I’m sure the owner won’t be his friend anymore if your ds actually asks for what he is is owed. But then the owner was never really his friend in the first instance.

SMabbutt · 15/12/2022 06:40

Your son has been naive and you have unfortunately contributed to him being cheated by condoning working cash in hand. An employer who is unethical enough to cheat the system to avoid paying tax and nics cannot be trusted to suddenly behave in an ethical manner towards employees. Any adult who is willing to go along with this has to accept they have no protection and are at risk of being cheated themselves. Your son is not an adult so it was down to you to make sure he didn't put himself in this position and protect him by pointing out the red flags. Try and explain to your son that this shouldn't have happened and that he needs to find proper employment with an employer who does things properly. He sounds like a hard worker and you can be justifiably proud of how determined he was to find a job but he deserves better than being exploited by a scam artist and tax cheat. Report the employer and try to get his outstanding wages but don't be surprised if it's a lost cause.

ShamedBySiri · 15/12/2022 06:58

Firstly congratulations to your son for his great work ethic. It's difficult these days for teenagers to get jobs but it's a great start to future employment. My DD started pub work at 17 and it was as such a good job for her with excellent employers and all through uni whenever she has been home she's just gone back and picked up shifts whenever she's around. It gave her confidence and a good reference for getting other jobs through uni and going on to post uni employment.

Unfortunately times are bad and many in the hospitality business are struggling and this is reflected by your son's employer not paying wages or paying cash in hand (and not paying PAYE etc although your son is unlikely to be earning enough to pay tax). Has he ever had a wage slip?

This won't improve, it's only a matter of time until this business goes under.

He should look for another job, hopefully be able to get a reference from his current employer. Then contact citizens advice regarding making a claim for unpaid wages.

I'm sorry his first job won't have been a positive experience for him but put it down to learning and he will appreciate better working conditions in another job.

He's not a slave but he is being exploited and no doubt there are many businesses doing this in the current economic situation.

I'm not sure if you have to be minimum 18 to work in the NHS but my hospital has plenty of young people working in jobs like portering and cleaning before going to uni. One of my DD2 friend's loves her portering job taking meal trolleys and delivering laundry etc, she's studying now but keeps up her work at the local hospital. Take a look at the NHS job site, it might be a better route than hospitality at the present time.

ShamedBySiri · 15/12/2022 07:16

Also, I'm afraid I think it is highly unlikely your son will get his full wages owed paid to him and maybe none. The business is going under. He should atop working there now and concentrate on his studies and getting another job.

Re NHS employment the NHS is now offering a variety of apprenticeships in different areas from HR and IT to the labs and nursing. Two of the trainee radiographers in my department who are on the apprenticeship scheme started off as porters in the department. So it's really worth taking a look at what is on offer at your local hospital.

messybutfun · 15/12/2022 07:23

@Tessabelle74 Have you not followed the Wagatha Christie trial. The court will ask the owner to provide the whatsup messages. The owner will say he dropped his phone in the Irish Sea. The court will decide he lied.

Tessabelle74 · 15/12/2022 07:31

@messybutfun 🤣🤣🤣 you really think this is going to court? Over a grand? It'll cost more than that in solicitors fees, ah you're funny though, brilliant

Walkaround · 15/12/2022 07:58

@Tessabelle74 - no need for solicitors in a small claims court. No idea about industrial tribunal.

Tessabelle74 · 15/12/2022 08:09

@Walkaround there is NO CONTRACT. The court will require a copy of it, and also your son's payslips, oh hang on he's working ILLEGALLY cash in hand. Good luck in court, do update us 🤣

Title edited by MNHQ at request of OP - Advice pls on labour exploitation law (a minor not being paid at work).
prh47bridge · 15/12/2022 08:27

@Tessabelle74 Continuing to display your lack of legal knowledge.

No need for solicitors in either the small claims court or industrial tribunal.

There is a contract. It may not be written but it clearly exists. He works and is paid for it. That is the contract.

You are completely wrong in thinking that the lack of a written contract would be fatal to his case. Far from it. It would actually help him as it shows the employer has failed to fulfil the legal requirement to give employees written particulars of their employment.

He is not working illegally. Cash in hand work is not automatically illegal.

Contrary to what you think, this would be a straightforward win for OP's son. Getting the judgement would cost nothing.

prh47bridge · 15/12/2022 09:13

On the contract question, to correct myself slightly, he works and is supposed to be paid for it. That is the contract.

It is a common mistake to think that a contract must be written. The law does not require that. Every time you buy something from a shop, you enter into a contract with the shop even though there is nothing in writing, let alone a signed document. In this case, in the absence of a written contract, the contract consists of the agreement between OP's son and the boss (regardless of whether that was written or verbal) that he would work and be paid £5 an hour plus those terms implied or stipulated by law. This is basic contract law.

In addition to my legal knowledge, I have personal experience of this. My son's first job while he was at college a few years ago was at a local pub. He did several shifts for them over Christmas and New Year. There was no written contract, no payslips and he was not paid. According to @Tessabelle74, taking the pub to tribunal would be hugely expensive and he would lose. In reality, it cost him nothing and he won. He did it entirely himself. My only involvement was to advise him that he should go to tribunal rather than small claims.

messybutfun · 15/12/2022 09:44

Tessabelle74 · 15/12/2022 07:31

@messybutfun 🤣🤣🤣 you really think this is going to court? Over a grand? It'll cost more than that in solicitors fees, ah you're funny though, brilliant

Court, tribunal, acas - perhaps focus on the relevant info the message conveys rather than unnecessary detail.

ghjklo · 15/12/2022 09:48

you need to go stick up for your son, people like this boss guy are selfish idiots taking advantage of young people. If he can't manage his cashflow without not paying people he doesn't deserve to be in business to be honest.

Bluerisotto · 15/12/2022 09:49

Catslovepies · 14/12/2022 19:37

This actually happened to me when I was that age. I told the boss that unless he paid me what he owed I would report him to the taxman. It was quite scary as he started shouting and swearing but in the end he paid up pretty quickly.

This put a huge smile on my face, good for you, being that age and standing up for your rights!

Candlemas · 15/12/2022 09:53

He shouldn't have accepted a job where there is no record of his earnings. Lots of cafe / restaurant type businesses are struggling just now, people don't have much spare money with bills going through the roof.

Making a claim in the small court might not result in back payments being made as his boss probably hasn't got the money.

He isn't a slave as he is completely free to move on, and he should chalk this up to lesson learned and find another job where he is paid correctly. Jobs are easy to find right now.

Naunet · 15/12/2022 10:09

The title of your thread is really offensive, your sons situation is not comparable to a woman trafficked into the sex trade and raped daily, please keep some perspective.

Having said that though, his employers treatment of him is disgusting and id want to seek legal advice, or go and speak to his boss too, but it’s difficult if your son doesn’t want you to get involved. Ultimately at 17, I think this is one of those things he needs to learn to navigate, I think you should explain to him that he has avenues to explore if he wants to get what he’s owed, and you’ll support him in exploring them, but it’s his choice as to if he wants to do that or not.

paintitallover · 15/12/2022 10:15

@Naunet Not all modern slaves are in the sex trade. Many are in takeaways, small shops, businesses and some still in agriculture.

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