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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Title edited by MNHQ at request of OP - Advice pls on labour exploitation law (a minor not being paid at work).

186 replies

Hedgehogscanclimbtrees · 14/12/2022 19:24

This summer after GSCEs my son made a CV and went round our town's local cafes and restaurants asking for work. He was 16 at the time (17 now) and most places said no, he was too young. One place took him on, £5 per hour, mostly kitchen help, washing dishes, helping wherever help is needed, some waiting on tables. He has loved doing this, and he likes the boss ("he's like a friend") and the other members of staff. He has been putting in the hours at weekends and holidays, sometimes doing 10 hour shifts! To be clear this is something he has wanted to do and it helps his self-esteem. We have also kept an eye that his schoolwork does not suffer.
However I have found out that the boss is not paying his staff because of cashflow problems! Apparently payday was always "oh next week" etc. then it came out that the owner is opening another restaurant, so didn't have the cash to pay his (young) staff! My son has been paid some, but we added up his hours and he is owed over £1,000! My husband and I are tempted to go to the restaurant to (politely) tell the owner that he cannot withold our son's earnings but son (understandably) doesn't want us to wade in on his behalf. However he is in a vulnerable position, having been working cash in hand. And being so young (he has tried asking for his wages and keeps getting fobbed off). We told him to say that he cannot continue to work if he is not being paid but now they have simply removed him from the Whatsap group where the rotas were sent out. He went in today to ask why he'd been removed and it seems several people have been removed, apparently because the owner is trying to catch up on his debts to everyone by not rota-ing them... I asked who is serving then and my son didn't know, but he did reveal that Sundays have apparently been busy because sometimes it was just my son and the owner who was juggling cooking and front of house!
I have to say I think any business owner who does not pay his staff is probably going under. What recourse does my son have? Are there laws to protect people like him (and the other young people who have also not been paid)?
I would love to hear from any employment lawyers on here, or re 'Modern Slavery' laws!

OP posts:
Burgoo · 14/12/2022 19:50

@LunaAndHerMoonDragons "Still not sure I said that clearly. While people who are slaves won't be reading this people whose parents or grandparents were slaves could be reading this and finding it triggering and offensive."

I fail to see how someone being offended is relevant TBH. It is STILL a horrific abuse in the UK today and there are thousands of people who are enslaved - that is why it is built into safeguarding legislation across the UK. Whilst the OP was very ham fisted and naive about it, we can't get away from the fact it STILL exists in the UK (and yes, often it is white folk who are the victims - especially those from Eastern Europe and the Middle East).

Lovageandrose · 14/12/2022 19:58

Your son is being exploited and scammed.

Moon22 · 14/12/2022 19:58

No, not a modern slave.
I would say more of a fool!- how on earth has he not been paid for 200 hours work and continued to work there?
I don't think mummy and daddy showing up at work is the way to go!- I would stop working here immediately!- there will be loads of other restaurants looking for staff at Christmas time.
I would give them one last chance to pay up- and then name and shame on social media. Followed by a phonecall from a solicitor.
He needs to get a job where he is paid through the books to make sure he will have proper protection and insurance.

LunaAndHerMoonDragons · 14/12/2022 19:59

OP follow the advice on this link or call CAB. www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/pay/problems-getting-paid/#:~:text=on%20parental%20leave.-,Next%20steps,have%20started%20getting%20statutory%20pay.

As for the rest I'm out. I hope no one gets hurt or triggered by OPs title.

KaleToChristmas · 14/12/2022 20:01

I would go to CAB. Try to get the money paid, but if it turns nasty or too difficult, just write it off. Your son should learn a good lesson from this about standing up for himself. Btw he sounds like a decent lad.

Pothoswithasparkle · 14/12/2022 20:03

LunaAndHerMoonDragons · 14/12/2022 19:59

OP follow the advice on this link or call CAB. www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/pay/problems-getting-paid/#:~:text=on%20parental%20leave.-,Next%20steps,have%20started%20getting%20statutory%20pay.

As for the rest I'm out. I hope no one gets hurt or triggered by OPs title.

And I hope we now jave one more person who knows modern slavery existsConfused
i thought that was totally different miscommunication at the begining!

How do people think some veg and fruit costed a quid...

ChocolatemilkBertie · 14/12/2022 20:07

I don’t have any legal advice but, when I had a Saturday job at school, my manager was frequently calling in the teenagers like me for overtime and then not paying us for it, we were all under 18. Don’t be afraid to get involved as an adult, our parents all did (and this was a nationwide chain shop) and made sure we got our money. I’m all for letting kids learn to stand up for themselves but this manager is clearly targeting the most vulnerable who likely don’t know their rights. He must have some sort of contract or proof of working hours? Some kind of sign in? The WhatsApp thread with the rotas needs to be kept by your son. Seek a solicitor immediately and your son shouldn’t work there again. There’ll be other jobs for a teen his age.

Tessabelle74 · 14/12/2022 20:08

No contract, no protection unfortunately. Your son's boss is a con artist who uses young staff to prop up his own bank balance. Refuse to let your son work there any more and get your husband down there to demand his money

LydiaBennetsUglyBonnet · 14/12/2022 20:10

No he isn’t a modern slave. Actually quite offensive to suggest he leads the same lifestyle as modern slave victims.

How did it go in noticed that he’s worked 200 hours for free??

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 14/12/2022 20:11

I hope no one gets hurt or triggered by OPs title

While OP's title was over the top, she has no control over what other people find hurtful or triggering.

DogInATent · 14/12/2022 20:16

Cash-in-hand, so there's no payslip. No contract. And it would seem no pay either.

He's not a slave, but he's a fool. He's probably enjoying the work and the people he's working with. But he needs to realise that this isn't right and he is being taken advantage of.

HMRC are the ones to contact as your son has clearly not been paid the relevant minimum wage.

whynotwhatknot · 14/12/2022 20:22

i dont understanf why your son still wants to work(ha) for free-he must realise they re just using him now

send a leter before action for the missed wages and tell him not to go back

JesusMaryAndJosephAndTheWeeDon · 14/12/2022 20:24

Report it to trading standards. It isn't slavery but there is plenty for them to look into

MsJinks · 14/12/2022 20:27

My daughter worked in a pub that didn’t pay its staff always - both on books and cash in hand staff. This was part of a much bigger cash flow issue. Parents did go in for one young person and insisted on being given the money owed out of the till.
My daughter kept working hoping that she’d be caught up with pay but might lose it if she left - started with wages being late, and incorrect - but it’s rather a sunk cost fallacy.
It’s not that uncommon for hospitality owners/managers to be a bit dodgy in their dealings. He’s not a victim of modern day slavery but of a wide boy employer.
You could try and strongarm the cash or report to HMRC or just tell him he’s learned a hard lesson but try to find another job.
Sorry this happened- some people really do over prioritise themselves and make other peoples lives the poorer for it.

LunaAndHerMoonDragons · 14/12/2022 20:27

Ok definitely done after this, I know actual slavery still exists. IT t is offensive to use a term where people were owned, sold and treated horrifically in this way. It is the epitome of privilege to define slavery as not getting paid.

LunaAndHerMoonDragons · 14/12/2022 20:27

Ok definitely done after this, I know actual slavery still exists. IT t is offensive to use a term where people were owned, sold and treated horrifically in this way.
It is the epitome of privilege to define slavery as not getting paid.

LunaAndHerMoonDragons · 14/12/2022 20:28

Ok definitely done after this, I know actual slavery still exists. IT t is offensive to use a term where people were owned, sold and treated horrifically in this way. It is the epitome of privilege to define slavery as not getting paid.

Managinggenzoclock · 14/12/2022 20:28

My understanding from an employer perspective is that you can never get away from proper tax and payroll responsibilities unless someone is genuinely self employed. He clearly isn’t. So whether he is paid in cash or not (that’s not inherently illegal), the employer should be declaring it and doing PAYE.
At this point I’d ask for the money and threaten with HMRC if he doesn’t pay up … and of course get a new job!

FirstnameSuesecondnamePerb · 14/12/2022 20:31

My daughter did 1 week in a restaurant and was not paid. She didn't go back but told everyone she knew and so did I/my friends. Turns out they didn't pay the chef either. As predicted they were closed within weeks.

LunaAndHerMoonDragons · 14/12/2022 20:35

Ok definitely done after this, I know actual slavery still exists. IT t is offensive to use a term where people were owned, sold and treated horrifically in this way.
It is the epitome of privilege to define slavery as not getting paid.

Pothoswithasparkle · 14/12/2022 20:35

LunaAndHerMoonDragons · 14/12/2022 20:35

Ok definitely done after this, I know actual slavery still exists. IT t is offensive to use a term where people were owned, sold and treated horrifically in this way.
It is the epitome of privilege to define slavery as not getting paid.

*are

ZebraKid71 · 14/12/2022 20:37

I'd speak to a lawyer, or as previous poster suggests GLAA, if it is something you want to pursue, assessments on modern slavery are made by the Home Office and GLAA can advise whether a referral is appropriate in this case (unlikely to be so). I say this as someone who works in a very technical role in this area, the above thread demonstrates exactly why you should not take legal advice from mumsnet!

LunaAndHerMoonDragons · 14/12/2022 20:38

Pothoswithasparkle · 14/12/2022 20:35

*are

Oh FFS😂. Definitely need to stop reading and go to sleep.

ittakes2 · 14/12/2022 20:38

Unfortunately if he is going to take a cash job you can’t really then expect there to be legal recourse! Can’t have it both ways.

bellac11 · 14/12/2022 20:42

LunaAndHerMoonDragons · 14/12/2022 20:27

Ok definitely done after this, I know actual slavery still exists. IT t is offensive to use a term where people were owned, sold and treated horrifically in this way.
It is the epitome of privilege to define slavery as not getting paid.

Its not offensive. Its simply inaccurate.

Modern slavery also has lots of different forms and dont always involve being owned, sold and treated horrifically (as in being physically hurt). There is a fine line between exploitation and slavery.

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