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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Title edited by MNHQ at request of OP - Advice pls on labour exploitation law (a minor not being paid at work).

186 replies

Hedgehogscanclimbtrees · 14/12/2022 19:24

This summer after GSCEs my son made a CV and went round our town's local cafes and restaurants asking for work. He was 16 at the time (17 now) and most places said no, he was too young. One place took him on, £5 per hour, mostly kitchen help, washing dishes, helping wherever help is needed, some waiting on tables. He has loved doing this, and he likes the boss ("he's like a friend") and the other members of staff. He has been putting in the hours at weekends and holidays, sometimes doing 10 hour shifts! To be clear this is something he has wanted to do and it helps his self-esteem. We have also kept an eye that his schoolwork does not suffer.
However I have found out that the boss is not paying his staff because of cashflow problems! Apparently payday was always "oh next week" etc. then it came out that the owner is opening another restaurant, so didn't have the cash to pay his (young) staff! My son has been paid some, but we added up his hours and he is owed over £1,000! My husband and I are tempted to go to the restaurant to (politely) tell the owner that he cannot withold our son's earnings but son (understandably) doesn't want us to wade in on his behalf. However he is in a vulnerable position, having been working cash in hand. And being so young (he has tried asking for his wages and keeps getting fobbed off). We told him to say that he cannot continue to work if he is not being paid but now they have simply removed him from the Whatsap group where the rotas were sent out. He went in today to ask why he'd been removed and it seems several people have been removed, apparently because the owner is trying to catch up on his debts to everyone by not rota-ing them... I asked who is serving then and my son didn't know, but he did reveal that Sundays have apparently been busy because sometimes it was just my son and the owner who was juggling cooking and front of house!
I have to say I think any business owner who does not pay his staff is probably going under. What recourse does my son have? Are there laws to protect people like him (and the other young people who have also not been paid)?
I would love to hear from any employment lawyers on here, or re 'Modern Slavery' laws!

OP posts:
TroublesomeLuck · 14/12/2022 20:42

It's a National Minimum Wage issue. Yes his rate of pay is more than the NMW but he's now not receiving the NMW for the hours he's worked. He can report it here: www.gov.uk/government/organisations/hm-revenue-customs/contact/national-minimum-wage-enquiries-and-complaints

AuditAngel · 14/12/2022 20:44

At his age, there are restrictions on the number and timings of the hours worked, and also in relation to serving alcohol.

If you are prepared to write off his wages, it might be worth speaking to the local council.

TheWeeDonkeyFella · 14/12/2022 20:45

You could have googled Modern Slavery in half the time it took to write that ridiculous post title - of course your son has not been the victim of modern slavery.

WiddlinDiddlin · 14/12/2022 20:46

Theres a food place near here run like that and yes any time the owner has financial issues it is the teenagers who do the majority of the work that suffer.

The usual method is for someones Dad to turn up and say something like 'Little Johnny says he's not been paid and you owe him x hours pay.... ' and then glare.

Pick a reasonably busy night, not so busy no ones got time to speak or so late the owners sloped off to leave kids to close up.. but busy enough that there is a substantial amount in the till.

No, it isn't the proper way to go about this, but it is the way most likely to result in some actual cash.

Supersimkin2 · 14/12/2022 20:48

Of course there’s legal resource. Call HMRC min wage helpline - and tell the other staff he’s been cheated (not via WhatsApp). They’re the next ones in line for employer fraud.

Employer is either a crook, going bust or both. Not unusual in this sector. HMRC are really good at dealing with them - they focus on getting the staff paid as a priority.

Thefriendlyone · 14/12/2022 20:51

For gods sake he’s not a modern slave, how utterly offensive or ignorant.

he’s a gullible young lad whose choosing to work for nothing

KettrickenSmiled · 14/12/2022 20:54

No, he's not a MODERN SLAVE - he's an employee without a contract who has been RIPPED OFF.

I don't think you know what a MODERN SLAVE is @Hedgehogscanclimbtrees
If you did, you'd have realised how fucking offensive it is to claim victimhood for a boy who is well supported by his parents, & can walk away from this non-job at any time.

RedToothBrush · 14/12/2022 21:06

Not a slave but it sounds like he is breaking numerous employment laws.

Greyarea12 · 14/12/2022 21:23

This is a difficult one because as your son is working cash in hand he should be declaring his earnings to hmrc if he is in the threshold for tax & NI. He may well be doing so but if he isn't and he is within the threshold for paying NI and tax then i think you need to tread carefully here.

yesforone · 14/12/2022 21:28

alwaysmovingforwards · 14/12/2022 19:36

Personally I'd 'build a relationship' with the boss.
Just drop in and order something, let him know you're DS parents, ask how he's getting on.
Good at the job?
Are you happy with him?
All ok with wages etc?
Let's swap numbers in case of an emergency...

Basically politely let the owner know that your DS isn't alone and that you're now on the scene and you've now got a direct line.

This. Always make that sure adults involved in your child's life are aware that there is a parent observing.

yesforone · 14/12/2022 21:28
  • always make sure
tunthebloodyalarmoff · 14/12/2022 21:33

Tell him to go to dominoes great for youngsters. Paid on time

Ritasueandbobtoo9 · 14/12/2022 21:47

Pop and see the Boss. Advice that you on behalf of your Son are taking him to small claims for the money owed.

TroublesomeLuck · 14/12/2022 21:50

Greyarea12 · 14/12/2022 21:23

This is a difficult one because as your son is working cash in hand he should be declaring his earnings to hmrc if he is in the threshold for tax & NI. He may well be doing so but if he isn't and he is within the threshold for paying NI and tax then i think you need to tread carefully here.

If he's an employee then it's the company's responsibility to be withholding PAYE and NIC and it's the company hmrc would be going after. This isn't the same thing as someone who is self employed where they have the responsibility to declare there warnings.

TroublesomeLuck · 14/12/2022 21:51

To declare their earnings

SHNBV · 14/12/2022 22:02

I’ve recently taken an ex-employer to tribunal for breaching my contract by refusing to pay me. It’s a very simple process so wouldn’t take much time in relation to the £1000 he might receive in return for his effort. Does he have any texts or witnesses to prove the hours he worked/what he was paid?

Xenia · 14/12/2022 22:03
  1. Find out who employed him - go on the website of the restaurant, search at companies house, look at emails etc etc to get the exact legal entity and company number.
  2. Check Companies Hosue to see its accounts and what assets it has if necessary pay £3 to do a land registry search for the property where there may be a lease.
  3. If employed by an individual person do online searches for them and see what assets they have - value of their house etc.
  4. Then send a letter before action giving 7 days to pay the full £1000 plus interest and collection charge (or threaten to wind a limited company up0.
  5. Do not blackmail them which is illegal - eg do NOT say unless you pay £1k I will report to Acas.
  6. Wire a complete account of hours and days worked for which no pay has been obtained - a kind of witness statement with numbererd attachments and records even if based on son's bus pass for dates and times or diary or other method or whatsapp print outs of the shifts from the last few months.
Iizzyb · 14/12/2022 22:03

Contact ACAS. They can assign a conciliation officer to contact the employer, ask him to settle up with ds. If he doesn't Ds can make a claim for his unpaid wages to an employment tribunal. Employer won't want any of that if he's paying cash in hand.

Do you have a list of all the shifts he's worked? You'll need to say what days & how long he worked.

He will also need some way of proving he worked there but even if he's no paperwork presumably you could all give evidence to say that he did.

Ds also sounds very young to be working that many hours so he may also want to avoid scrutiny of working conditions.

Might be worth making contact with him directly first as he might pay up to avoid anyone "official" becoming aware

Moxbeal · 14/12/2022 22:07

Besides the unpaid time, I find it sad £5 per hour is all they get, even at 16/17 years old. I left school and was paid £3.75 per hour at 16 doing unskilled labour but that was 22 years ago! To think in 22 years it's only gone up by £1.25 is sad 😔

ThereIbledit · 14/12/2022 22:09

The definition of modern slavery is much broader than most people on here seem to think.

Support your son to get his wages, but for goodness sake also support him to walk away from the job and get a job elsewhere - plenty of retail jobs around from employers who are big enough to actually understand and abide by employment law.

Scotty12 · 14/12/2022 22:14

You could contact citizens advice. He should stop working there surely?

Scotty12 · 14/12/2022 22:16

I got paid £4 per hour as a teenager in the 90s. Nearly 30 years later - £5 per hour is totally unacceptable.

Wonnle · 14/12/2022 22:18

Why is he still going to work if he's not going to be paid for it ?

Namechange303333311 · 14/12/2022 22:26

No idea what can be done legally but I’d make a point of going in when the cafe’s busy and asking him.

Happychappy12345 · 14/12/2022 22:32

You need to get involved and tell the business owner that you are going to report this to council and HMRC.