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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think this isn't an acceptable way to talk about a child with sen?

272 replies

Hattymealy · 13/12/2022 14:13

this was written by my sons class teacher for his ehcp annual review- ds is 9 and has adhd combined type and autism.

"Social/emotional/behavioural Development-

Behaviour during lessons - complete refusal if he does not want to be involved, this can lead to him exiting, singing over the top of the adults, starting a very different activity of his own choosing Etc.
He will get up and walk in front of an adult making an input- he has no care for the learning of others. Often, he will decide whether he believes a lesson is worth his time based on the initial input, if not then he leaves. Unless it is Art or something based around line drawing, in which case he is all in. If it is a lesson that he believes is "worth it' then he will focus and engage for a period and contribute but at the expense of others. He has a very inflated sense of worth. "

to me this reads like he's choosing to have the difficulties he does and that he basically just thinks he's better than everyone and above school work, and like she is making completely unfounded assumptions about his motivations. Baring in mind the opinion of professionals that have assessed him is that he has very low self esteem which is a large part of his struggles with engaging. He also cries about school almost every single night because he can't cope with the environment at all and it and it makes him feel stupid. I've asked him why he doesn't go in the class much and his answer was "nerves kick in and I can't" So to see him being described as having an inflated sense of worth is very upsetting that they can misunderstand him so much.

OP posts:
xyhere · 13/12/2022 16:19

While most of it does seem factual, the "inflated sense of worth" bit colours everything that was said before and it's completely unacceptable - somebody willing to make that kind of judgement on a child in the full knowledge that they have special requirements should not be teaching young children.

Seems to me that, while that might not be the right learning environment for him, the teacher needs a bit of education themselves; because the education system's been neglected, they're both stuck with a situation neither of them likes, and it's the teacher's responsibility to not be an ass about it.

jamoncrumpets · 13/12/2022 16:21

It's rude, definitely. There are so many ways you can say things and this teacher appears to have the tact and sympathy of, well, a gnat. And I don't need to be tactful here because they're not reading. 😂

Th 'inflated sense of self worth' comment is cruel. Theory of mind is impaired in many people with autism. It's one of the autistic characteristics people notice first. It is unrealistic to expect an autistic child to have developed emotional and social awareness of their peers. Of course they think they are the most important in the room - they just assume everyone thinks that.

I would be making a formal complaint about that comment and suggesting training for the teacher.

Anon778833 · 13/12/2022 16:23

cantkeepawayforever · 13/12/2022 14:54

Does he have 1-1 support in the classroom? If not then it is not the teacher’s fault he isn’t having movement breaks, that’s the fault of the school.

No, it is the fault of the Government, who do not fund schools well enough. A school cannot allocate a child 1:1 support - or even have a class TA in general - unless there is very specific funding. A 1 adult to 30 children model, unless some adult 1:1 is funded through EHCPs, us now the only possible norm in most schools.

Yes, agreed. What happens as well is that the school will often say that you can't apply for an EHCP and it won't be accepted. Even though parents have the right to apply and right of appeal.

Libelula1979 · 13/12/2022 16:32

Gosh, what she has written speaks of a teacher with insufficient SEN training/awareness/empathy.
A lot of responses on this post also scream of people who have fuck all idea about ND children and the processes in place (or lack thereof) within the education system.

Hellodarknessmyoldpal · 13/12/2022 16:35

This could have been written with the same meaning but in a more professional way. Yanbu and it's not surprising your DC isn't enaging well with this adult if she is able to hide how she feels about him.

fernfriend · 13/12/2022 16:41

This wording is very concerning. I wonder if you might consider contacting SENDCo, Head Teacher and the LA about this.

The Equality Act says reasonable adjustments need to be put in place to ensure that a child is not at a substantial disadvantage compared to their peers, due to their disability.
School is required to put reasonable adjustments in place to ensure your child can engage with the learning.
Physically restraining a child who is not endangering themselves or others is illegal.

What strategies has the teacher employed to engage your child? What reasonable adjustments have been made? Are they working with you and including you in the decision making around your child?

Considering autism is characterised by social understanding and communication challenges as well as difficulties processing sensory information, what measures are they putting in place to ensure your child is able to access the curriculum at an appropriate level? Have they completed a sensory audit of the school?

Have you read the school's SEND policy? It's worth taking a look and seeing whether what they say they do, they actually do!

StressedToTheMaxxx · 13/12/2022 16:43

It simply sounds factual. His behaviour can be discussed in fancy language but the behaviour would remain the same. Sometimes I find myself sceatching my head trying to decipher what a person actually means when they try and use language to dress up the behaviour I'd much rather have it in simple, factual language.

Hattymealy · 13/12/2022 16:45

StressedToTheMaxxx · 13/12/2022 16:43

It simply sounds factual. His behaviour can be discussed in fancy language but the behaviour would remain the same. Sometimes I find myself sceatching my head trying to decipher what a person actually means when they try and use language to dress up the behaviour I'd much rather have it in simple, factual language.

a person with absolutely no qualification to make such judgements saying that an autistic 9 year old has an "Inflated sense of worth" is factual in what way?

OP posts:
fernfriend · 13/12/2022 16:48

StressedToTheMaxxx · 13/12/2022 16:43

It simply sounds factual. His behaviour can be discussed in fancy language but the behaviour would remain the same. Sometimes I find myself sceatching my head trying to decipher what a person actually means when they try and use language to dress up the behaviour I'd much rather have it in simple, factual language.

I disagree. How can the teacher possibly know how the child is feeling? His behaviour sounds like distressed behaviour.

bleakmidwinterlady · 13/12/2022 16:49

It is difficult to write EHCPs and keep them positive and there is a lot of waffle in some of them and unrealistic provision

It needed to be phrased better

Hope your ds gets the support he needs OP

WifeMotherWorker · 13/12/2022 16:51

It reads as a factual report. I have sympathy with the teacher having their attention taken away from 29 other children in the class and the ongoing disruption to lessons. Put your attention and effort into taking him out of mainstream school and into a school that meets his needs. Don’t make a formal complaint about a teacher who is doing their best. You have nothing to gain yet it will cause needless disruption to the school and teacher having to investigate and manage your complaint.

bleakmidwinterlady · 13/12/2022 16:51

Perhaps that is the problem, teacher isn't qualified in this specialist documentation and probably has loads of other paperwork to deal with

Is there not a Senco in the school who would review and write this

Hattymealy · 13/12/2022 16:53

bleakmidwinterlady · 13/12/2022 16:51

Perhaps that is the problem, teacher isn't qualified in this specialist documentation and probably has loads of other paperwork to deal with

Is there not a Senco in the school who would review and write this

The senco did the annual review paperwork this section was by his class teacher because they need information from the class teacher

OP posts:
bleakmidwinterlady · 13/12/2022 16:56

Senco could have edited and rephrased it I think?

MBappse · 13/12/2022 16:59

Saying the same thing, but taking the emotion, negativity and subjectivity out of it. We also can't possibly understand his motivations or guess his feelings....

Social/emotional/behavioural Development-

Behaviour during lessons - complete disengagement in some activities, this can lead to him exiting, singing over the top of the adults, starting a very different activity of his own choosing Etc.

He will get up and walk in front of an adult making an input. Often, he might leave the class after the initial teaching element, when he opts out of the task or activity described by the teacher. He seems to engage very well with Art or something based around line drawing. If it is a lesson which captures his attention, then he will focus and engage for a period and contribute. Sometimes he speaks over others or does noy wait his turn to take part in the learning. He shows reduced understanding of the needs of others in group learning situations.

Nevermindthesquirrels · 13/12/2022 17:01

In my experience nothing in the EHCP process is pleasant. You may not like reading it and I have sympthy for you on that part, but this just sounds plain and factual. You are lucky the teacher is taking the time to describe the behaviours and engaging with the process. This isn't about being semantically correct, it's about a matter of fact description of behaviour.
You need to try your best to approach this without emotions or you'll get really beaten up through this process.

MBappse · 13/12/2022 17:04

The teacher is the one showing emotion. And describing his thoughts and feelings is not matter of fact. It is supposition.

phoenixrosehere · 13/12/2022 17:04

WifeMotherWorker · 13/12/2022 16:51

It reads as a factual report. I have sympathy with the teacher having their attention taken away from 29 other children in the class and the ongoing disruption to lessons. Put your attention and effort into taking him out of mainstream school and into a school that meets his needs. Don’t make a formal complaint about a teacher who is doing their best. You have nothing to gain yet it will cause needless disruption to the school and teacher having to investigate and manage your complaint.

Sounds like OP is already doing that.

It is very difficult to get a placement into a specialist school. The closest one to take our son is 30 minutes away. The one in town is fully booked with a waiting list (our son goes to the holiday clubs when possible and they also get fully booked quickly). The director there says there’s another child who commutes 45 minutes to his specialist school from where we are.

It’s easy to say just send him to a specialist school but there has to be a specialist school that is not only available but can meet his individual needs Ute some on here act or think it’s simple. It’s pure luck in many cases

blackalert · 13/12/2022 17:05

Spendonsend · 13/12/2022 14:37

Wow. That is rather revealing of their views anyway.
Whilst its fine to be factual about the behaviours, the interpretation of why the behaviours have occured is not very likely to be accurate and isnt professional.

This. The teacher has no way of knowing why these things are happening. She's made subjective statements of what's going on inside his head. It's very unprofessional and clearly doesn't understand autism at all!

AmongstTheCosmos · 13/12/2022 17:08

Ugh it sounds awful all round. I'd be upset to read that report about my DC too OP and it sounds as though this teacher has no tools at her disposal to improve things for your son or the other children in the class.

I hope he is able to get a place at a special school soon.

Hattymealy · 13/12/2022 17:09

Nevermindthesquirrels · 13/12/2022 17:01

In my experience nothing in the EHCP process is pleasant. You may not like reading it and I have sympthy for you on that part, but this just sounds plain and factual. You are lucky the teacher is taking the time to describe the behaviours and engaging with the process. This isn't about being semantically correct, it's about a matter of fact description of behaviour.
You need to try your best to approach this without emotions or you'll get really beaten up through this process.

Maybe if this was the only issue but it's not
There's been a wider issue of school refusal and unnecessary use of restraint with this teacher/school, as well as some decidedly fidget things been said in meetings and currently he is in her class 3 days a week so my concern is that her views on his behaviour are clouding how he is treated.

We have had a teacher with similar views before and the damage it caused to him was huge so I am really trying to avoid that.
He had a really great teacher before, who also didn't have much understanding of sen but never treated him badly or was bitchy or judgemental about his difficulties and he engaged with her really well and tried his best to engage and attempt classwork, he did still have many difficulties or course but not flat outright refusal of any and all school work. she seemed to listen to our input instead of dismissing it and ds did really well with her.

OP posts:
blackalert · 13/12/2022 17:10

WifeMotherWorker · 13/12/2022 16:51

It reads as a factual report. I have sympathy with the teacher having their attention taken away from 29 other children in the class and the ongoing disruption to lessons. Put your attention and effort into taking him out of mainstream school and into a school that meets his needs. Don’t make a formal complaint about a teacher who is doing their best. You have nothing to gain yet it will cause needless disruption to the school and teacher having to investigate and manage your complaint.

How can supposing motivation be factual 🤷‍♀️

As if getting a specialist placement is that easy that all you need to do is try a bit harder.

Unless you have had a child with SEN in a mainstream school who is treated terribly by teachers with no understanding and just want your child out of the school at all costs so that the nice normal children can be focussed on, I think it is very difficult to comment.

Op, I would be putting a complaint it so that the lack of knowledge can be reviewed and training focussed on for the teacher.

bleakmidwinterlady · 13/12/2022 17:11

Where is he on the other 2 days

Does he have a different teacher?

Is there a TA who helps him?

MBappse · 13/12/2022 17:12

I wouldn't complain.

I would ask for the wording to be changed to be less subjective.

The Senco will understand and it might help to keep relations with the teacher on a better footing.

It will be the same outcome and your message would get across, loud and clear.

Pumperthepumper · 13/12/2022 17:13

I’d definitely complain. Completely unprofessional, and unfair.