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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this isn't an acceptable way to talk about a child with sen?

272 replies

Hattymealy · 13/12/2022 14:13

this was written by my sons class teacher for his ehcp annual review- ds is 9 and has adhd combined type and autism.

"Social/emotional/behavioural Development-

Behaviour during lessons - complete refusal if he does not want to be involved, this can lead to him exiting, singing over the top of the adults, starting a very different activity of his own choosing Etc.
He will get up and walk in front of an adult making an input- he has no care for the learning of others. Often, he will decide whether he believes a lesson is worth his time based on the initial input, if not then he leaves. Unless it is Art or something based around line drawing, in which case he is all in. If it is a lesson that he believes is "worth it' then he will focus and engage for a period and contribute but at the expense of others. He has a very inflated sense of worth. "

to me this reads like he's choosing to have the difficulties he does and that he basically just thinks he's better than everyone and above school work, and like she is making completely unfounded assumptions about his motivations. Baring in mind the opinion of professionals that have assessed him is that he has very low self esteem which is a large part of his struggles with engaging. He also cries about school almost every single night because he can't cope with the environment at all and it and it makes him feel stupid. I've asked him why he doesn't go in the class much and his answer was "nerves kick in and I can't" So to see him being described as having an inflated sense of worth is very upsetting that they can misunderstand him so much.

OP posts:
ClaudiusTheGod · 13/12/2022 15:42

These children break teachers through no fault of their own. The child is being failed. The teacher is being failed. The rest of the class are being failed. Inclusion does not work. The whole 1:30 teacher:child ratio does not work for certain children. Add to that an unsympathetic senior management team who know full well that there’s no money and no provision for children with an EHCP and you’ve got part of the reason for the teacher retention crisis in schools.

I’ve worked with children who simply never stay quiet. You can’t even think straight after a while, never mind how understanding you are of the reasons. You cannot do your job. Teachers with children of their own with SEN don’t cope any better.

Rail against the system, not against a victim of the system. And consider believing what the teacher is saying to you. Your child won’t be the same in the classroom environment as he is at home.

Bewitched005 · 13/12/2022 15:42

He needs an advocate in school for him, and that should be his teacher

What do you suggest his teacher does, in practical terms? Bearing in mind that she has another 29 children to think about?

The best solution, until a place in a special school becomes available, would be if the OP volunteered to sit in the class with her son.

TorviShieldMaiden · 13/12/2022 15:42

Placing children in specialist schools is discrimination, and almost impossible as there is no provision for academic specialist schools.

Disabled children (which SEN children are) are not disabled by their impairments (autism, adhd, dyslexia) but by the environment of the school. The social model of disability. This teacher is appalling and knows nothing about disability or SEN.

Imagine if she wrote that a wheelchair using child was ignorant for refusing to stand up and walk. Without the appropriate adjustments, that is what this child is being asked to do.

TorviShieldMaiden · 13/12/2022 15:43

Bewitched005 · 13/12/2022 15:42

He needs an advocate in school for him, and that should be his teacher

What do you suggest his teacher does, in practical terms? Bearing in mind that she has another 29 children to think about?

The best solution, until a place in a special school becomes available, would be if the OP volunteered to sit in the class with her son.

Excellent. So the parents of disabled children should give up work too? And those children should have the embarrassment of having their parent sit next to them?

girlmom21 · 13/12/2022 15:44

TorviShieldMaiden · 13/12/2022 15:42

Placing children in specialist schools is discrimination, and almost impossible as there is no provision for academic specialist schools.

Disabled children (which SEN children are) are not disabled by their impairments (autism, adhd, dyslexia) but by the environment of the school. The social model of disability. This teacher is appalling and knows nothing about disability or SEN.

Imagine if she wrote that a wheelchair using child was ignorant for refusing to stand up and walk. Without the appropriate adjustments, that is what this child is being asked to do.

The teachers don't have the training or resources to support these children. Everyone's being failed here.

TorviShieldMaiden · 13/12/2022 15:46

Of course, I was a teacher for 15 years. But I could have worded what she wrote better than that. the self worth comment is just spiteful.

Notimeforaname · 13/12/2022 15:46

That is what I did do, and will do every time he needs me to. but they have a problem with that because he was going in 5 minutes late (even though all the retraining and resisting made him far more than 5 minutes late)

Then they are being unreasonable here. Allow the fucking 5 minutes like...🙄
Sorry it's so difficult for you op.

slowquickstep · 13/12/2022 15:50

Has the teacher made any statements that are wrong?

Bewitched005 · 13/12/2022 15:51

TorviShieldMaiden · 13/12/2022 15:43

Excellent. So the parents of disabled children should give up work too? And those children should have the embarrassment of having their parent sit next to them?

Show quote history

Do you have any better ideas?

Original poster
Hattymealy · 13/12/2022 15:55

slowquickstep · 13/12/2022 15:50

Has the teacher made any statements that are wrong?

...,yes.
he doesn't decide if he believes a lesson is "worth it"
he doesn't have an inflated sense of worth.
he does care about the learning of others he is just 9 and autistic and not able to regulate himself in an environment where his needs are unmet.
its not true that he "decides he doesn't want to be involved" quite the opposite and it's incredibly frustrating and for him to not be able to focus and concentrate on school work like the other children can.

OP posts:
LimitIsUp · 13/12/2022 15:57

It's not acceptable - it's very loaded language, and to be frank many teachers know fuck all about neurodiversity (I have a friend who is a teacher - I love her, but she has not one clue)

EscapeRoomToTheSun · 13/12/2022 15:58

He has a very inflated sense of worth.

That is a fucking awful thing to say about a child. What is the implication there? That he is somehow worth less (than the other children?).

MXVIT · 13/12/2022 15:58

he does care about the learning of others he is just 9 and autistic and not able to regulate himself in an environment where his needs are unmet.

Then maybe mainstream is not the environment for him...

because right now the needs of the other 29 children are not being met either and everyone (your son included) is being failed.

mrshoho · 13/12/2022 15:59

That is the most unprofessional and spiteful report I have ever read concerning a child with a recognised SEN. I'm sorry you have had to read it and if this is his class teacher I would be very concerned. This is unacceptable and should be highlighted with the SEN leader and head teacher.

To those saying 'What do you expect the teacher to do?' The OP wasn't asking for help with teaching strategies. The report from the teacher should be factual but unbiased and without personal opinion.

Original poster
Hattymealy · 13/12/2022 15:59

MXVIT · 13/12/2022 15:58

he does care about the learning of others he is just 9 and autistic and not able to regulate himself in an environment where his needs are unmet.

Then maybe mainstream is not the environment for him...

because right now the needs of the other 29 children are not being met either and everyone (your son included) is being failed.

I agree, but easier said than done.

OP posts:
Spendonsend · 13/12/2022 16:01

Bewitched005 · 13/12/2022 15:42

He needs an advocate in school for him, and that should be his teacher

What do you suggest his teacher does, in practical terms? Bearing in mind that she has another 29 children to think about?

The best solution, until a place in a special school becomes available, would be if the OP volunteered to sit in the class with her son.

In practical terms it takes the same amount of time to write a report and attend the annual review in a way that supports the child as it does in a way that
is less supportive.

You absolutely recognise the behaviours and the impact but you dont put the cause as choosing or worth. You either suggest its not clear why the child is doing this despite support so request more ep, salt, ot input is needed to understand those behaviours better - or that an increased level of funding
is needed to engage the child with more bespoke learning materials and provide movement breaks.
They are sat in the room anyway. Ask for whats needed.

bigbluebus · 13/12/2022 16:02

Why does he not have a 1:1 to divert/distract him or try and differentiate the lesson so that he is interested and not disrupting the lesson for the other pupils? They are failing to meet his needs.

My DS displayed similar behaviours in Primary school. His EHCP provided 1:1 who could remove him to a different activity if he was disruptive but was mostly able to keep him on track. The result of this was that he learned the skills he needed to cope in class. Not saying it was perfect - he was definitely better in lessons that interested him - but there wasn't a specialist school in our area that could meet his academic needs alongside his ASD related behaviours.

muckandmerriment · 13/12/2022 16:02

OP I'm a parent of a child with SEN and I also work in an advisory role related to SEN. I find the wording accusatory, as if she's blaming him for doing things on purpose rather than describing his needs. It shows a lot about the teacher's attitude and that would worry me. I wouldn't accept that kind of wording in an EHCP. It's describing his behaviours without an understanding of the needs driving those behaviours. He's disengaged from class for a reason, but she's made an assumption that he's simply choosing not to be involved. It's very subjective and in my view (although not from a legal pov) discriminatory to describe him in this way in the EHCP.

Oblomov22 · 13/12/2022 16:03

I think that he can't manage mainstream and needs a specialist school.

Her report will support that.

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 13/12/2022 16:04

Well, that’s another teacher who will be looking for a less stressful job this year.

Original poster
Hattymealy · 13/12/2022 16:05

Oblomov22 · 13/12/2022 16:03

I think that he can't manage mainstream and needs a specialist school.

Her report will support that.

I agree that he can't.
but her report could have supported that without saying he has an inflated sense of worth.
People don't just get to speak about children however they like because they are struggling in mainstream school.

OP posts:
Tiredallofthetime · 13/12/2022 16:07

It’s OK to be frustrated, it’s even OK to privately dislike a child.

But we do have to be professional.

romdowa · 13/12/2022 16:08

It sounds like the school environment is hugely traumatic for your son and I'm pretty sure his teachers attitude is adding to that. How can someone as educated as a teacher not understand that behaviour is communication.
I'm a fully grown autistic adult and if I was man handled by someone into an environment that I found stressful. I too would probably display what would be percieved as negative behaviours.
It sounds like the school are very reluctant to work with you to ensure your child's needs are met. I really don't see the harm in you waiting with him in the mornings.
Is there anyway you can withdraw him from this school or would that put his place as a specialist school at risk?

LimitIsUp · 13/12/2022 16:12

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 13/12/2022 16:04

Well, that’s another teacher who will be looking for a less stressful job this year.

Doesn't sound like she will be much of a loss. Meh

RewildingAmbridge · 13/12/2022 16:13

Could it be that clumsily she is trying to highlight that mainstream provision isn't right for him, and thinks by giving those examples he's more likely to get the specialist provision you want for him?
The language isn't great, and I would be upset too but there is a possibility the intention is for what is best for your son.
Years ago I had to write a court assessment for an adult on probation, he could not comply with his sentence, honestly he should never have been there, his problems and behaviours including his offending, were mental health related and he had been woefully let down by the community mental health team. I could not write that in the report, it was not my position to assess the practice/quality of another profession. What I had to do was make it very clear that he was either unable or unwilling to engage with his current sentence with lots of examples (I'm not medically trained so couldn't say it was definitely unable although, made it very clear that was my opinion). Requesting revocation and resentence to either a mental health treatment order or a hospital order. His mum was devastated and I was a lot more careful with my words than that teacher has been. However it was the only way I could get him access to the provision he needed, if he'd stayed in community justice he would've ended up breaching and in prison reduce would've been so damaging for him.
Can you take it up with the head or the SENCO?