To think controlled crying is cruel

[KazMa]

DH would like to try controlled crying/sleep training but I am totally against any sort of crying/leaving DS on his own upset. Any advice?

Here is current scenario:

DS just turned 7 months old and we have been co sleeping since the dreaded 4 month sleep regression, he also breastfeeds to sleep - will go to sleep without it but needs a lot of patting, rocking and walking around so it’s easier just to BF.

For a month now I am able to BF to sleep and then leave him in his cot in his own room for nap times and he will sleep 45mins to an hour per nap (3x per day).

At night however he will wake up and only go back to sleep if he is laying & feeding next to me in my bed. (Eg, bedtime at 8pm but he’ll wake at 8:45 and won’t go back to sleep.

I have two and still went fairly gentle parenting/ no sleep training (although no midnight toast or sing songs here). I managed ok. Does that count?

Point is, we don't need to discredit other people's experiences or strugtgles to justify our own. Goes both ways :)

Well, I have one child at nursery and I'm at work all day. My housework, cooking etc gets done in the evening. If I had a baby as well that I was home all day with, would I and my husband not still be able to get the bulk of the housework done in the evening? How do people with multiple children get anything done once they're back at work?

I don't care what fancy terms people use (controlled crying blah blah). It's cruel to do that to a young child / baby. Most people who will say it's a 'practical' thing to do is downright selfish. You knew what you were getting when you had a baby - a few challenging years for sure but they will grow up and you can then do whatever you wanted to do. Kids need cuddles, love and a certain amount of discipline but not cruelty for sure.

Kids need cuddles, love and a certain amount of discipline but not cruelty for sure.

Thanks doctor, I'll take that under advisement.

@yellowmoosefever Do you have children?

Probably not what people want to hear but part of being a good parent is self awareness
This statement can apply to both views though.

I had two children who were nightmare sleepers, especially my first. I too didn't have helped at all, suffered from exhaustion and the rest, and went back to work FT early to make it worse. In my case, it wasnt a matter of what was the right thing to do. I just couldn't let my kids cry in what was clearly to me a call of distress, whatever whatever that distress was, serious or not. It's just go totally against who I am. If I see anyone in a bit if distress, my empathy vibes kick in and I have to offer comfort. I just couldn't relax hearing my kids go on crying and crying. It would have broken my heart, end off.

I'm glad I didn't because we learnt at 14months old that my DD had a medical condition that was causing her pain.

My best friend though was totally different to me, sleep train her two and that was that.

All 4 babies are now adults, all mentally and psychologically healthy. Her boys are not traumatised in any way. Mine did end up sleeping very well through the night in their own bed before they were 3.

We both did what came naturally to us. She has no regrets, neither do I. Just do what feels right to you and ignore any judgements.

For the umpteenth time.
CC/ sleep training doesn't involve leaving your child to cry for hours on end.
No-one on this thread has ever said they did that.
I was referring to the pp who has admitted that the night wake ups/ singing and her DC telling her she was loved are for her benefits not the child's because she doesn't think a 4 year old waking up twice per night is in any way detrimental.

It doesn't matter how it is done, the point us that it's ok for parents to do what they think is right for them even if it is hard.

Telling others they are doing it wrong is not on, one way or the other because in the end, it won't impact on the kids one way or the other.

Essentially either sleep training works
Rapid returns and comforting until baby settles and sleeps .
Or it doesn't

The first group, sleeping babies.

The second group are applying their experience of crying babies to the first group when they are settled and asleep!

I'm sure their are instances of neglect where babies are left to cry for hours and the parents ignore them along with other social issues but we are talking about parents on a parenting forum who look for advice and support.

But surely you can see that in the group where it doesnt, or it takes time, that will involve a degree of crying that some will feel uncomfortable about. we've all heard the "well, the first night it took 4 hours, next night 2, and so on, but now we are in the second week he only grumbles for 10 mins" stories, IRL and online, and you must be able to imagine that for some that level of crying is a justified means to an end and for others it's not.

I have to say agree OP. I know these thread are very contentious and people can be defensive which is understandable, but I do think in years to come there will be more information about the potential impacts of CC - and CIO in particular. I know there are some babies that "get it" very quickly. Mine would not have been one of these babies. Our monitor was lagging once so we missed him crying for about a minute. By the time I got to him he was hysterical, took ages to calm down. little heart going like the clappers.

I know some have said those who haven't sleep trained must have easy babies. I certainly didnt/don't (14 months now). He was a very fussy baby and is and still was a terrible sleeper. We co-sleep and it gets us the most sleep. I'm back at work and it can be difficult but the night wakes are slowly getting less. I think some just get there in their own time.

The thing you are missing in the " 4 hours" is that the child is being comforted during that time not left alone.

These are DC who aren't sleeping anyway or the parents wouldn't be doing it.
Did you miss the stories of 30 minute wakes to BF?
No-one needs to sleep train if their DC is happily sleeping!

Essentially either sleep training works
Rapid returns and comforting until baby settles and sleeps
Is this what is meant by sleep training, then that never ever worked with my kids. They would have continued to cry for hours and just fell asleep through exhaustion brought on by crying after very long minutes (closer to 1h than 10mns).

It's a bit presumptuous to assume this works with every baby! Mine were very stubborn from the time they were born!

You're lucky cosleeping is viable.

I am not missing that. But even with the occassional "comfort" (which, again,often doesn't provide a lot of company in my anecdotal experience) 4 hrs of active crying (repeated in decreasing intervals for 14 days), even with some "comfort" breaks, would be too much for many.

And the baby wouldn't be awake for those 4 hrs. They would have been cuddled and fed to sleep and maybe woken again and repeat. For some that is preferable, even if hard.

The thing you are missing in the " 4 hours" is that the child is being comforted during that time not left alone
How comforted? Mine would calmed down only slightly to be even more distressed after I kept leaving. So going in was only very short term comfort and made them feel worse each time I then left.

But even with the occassional "comfort" (which, again,often doesn't provide a lot of company in my anecdotal experience) 4 hrs of active crying (repeated in decreasing intervals for 14 days), even with some "comfort" breaks, would be too much for many
I agree. Some can do it, others can't. I feel in the latter category but never judge in the former.

Yep, that's how DD was too. The brief "comfort" was no comfort at all to her. I have this vivid memory of trying to pat her head after a HV had told me when she cried I shoudnt' pick her up but just pat her head to calm her down/ get her back off to slep and her little angry red crying face looking at me like "wft are you doing to my head" as she was getting more and more upset.

All their needs checked -nappy, drink, cuddles.
Then once calmed back to bed.
Tucked in ,night night ,leave.
Repeat

No screaming for 4 hours, they were always tended to but back to bed.

Emotional needs also exist. A baby is not a digestive system.

Reading comprehensive is also a thing.

cuddles have nothing to do with the digestive system!

Exactly! No one goes into parenting to do this really hard thing of sleep training. We would all love one of those babies who fall asleep when they're tired but for most it's a toss up between a baby crying all night and a baby crying at the start of the night and then getting some sleep. This was my experience with my first.

(I did magically get a good sleeper with my second but think that's because he was both a different character altogether and generally had to fit in around his sister who had just started school).

If you've given them a cuddle and they're still crying after that and you leave them again then you're not tending to their emotional needs.

They weren't crying though, they cried, were comforted and then were laughing,pulling my hair, head butting me and sticking their fingers up my nose!

Clearly their fingers had an emotional need to be up your nose