To think controlled crying is cruel

[KazMa]

DH would like to try controlled crying/sleep training but I am totally against any sort of crying/leaving DS on his own upset. Any advice?

Here is current scenario:

DS just turned 7 months old and we have been co sleeping since the dreaded 4 month sleep regression, he also breastfeeds to sleep - will go to sleep without it but needs a lot of patting, rocking and walking around so it’s easier just to BF.

For a month now I am able to BF to sleep and then leave him in his cot in his own room for nap times and he will sleep 45mins to an hour per nap (3x per day).

At night however he will wake up and only go back to sleep if he is laying & feeding next to me in my bed. (Eg, bedtime at 8pm but he’ll wake at 8:45 and won’t go back to sleep.

Yes, and they responded with lots of "you are do cruel to your child by preventing them from learning to sleep, and you can't possibly have had it as bad". Why wouldn't people be ok to respond to that? Is this only a thread for those who disagree with the OP?

I think on this - as with so many other things like this - that everyone ought to just stop being so wrapped up in their own emotions on this topic and let people do what they need to do. Without calls for neglect... both ways. Because I would wager quite a lot that the very vast majority of the babies that have been discussed on this thread are (1) very loved and very well cared for and (2) will sleep eventually!

I try really hard not to judge other parents as I think it does not help. But I am baffled at those who refuse to try anything when they have a seven-year-old NT child still waking them up in the middle of the night. I would not tolerate that.

I think it is neglect, in a socially acceptable way.

@HeatwaveToNightshade that was my experience too. Or beign told "well you cant omplain because you could "just" sleeptrain and all your troubles would be over, but you don't so.... "

I was thinking about this thread just now while dealing with my 8 month old who is going through a very clingy, cries when I leave the room phase. It can be stifling to be honest and means I get very little done through the day which stresses me out.

Today we desperately need to go out and get some bits for Christmas or my other dc are going to miss out. She needs a nap first but cried and cried when I put her down. I left her for a few minutes then went back to shush her and after about 10 minutes she went to sleep. Hopefully she will wake up refreshed and we can get done what we need to.

What would have been the better option there? Going in and keeping her up longer? Contact napping so that I can't get anything else done? I would say 5 minutes of crying so that we can have a happy, productive day is the best thing for everyone. She needed a nap she just didn't realise it.

Couldn't she nap when you're out? Presumably she'd be in either a pram, a car seat or a sling.

My son, NT, 5, wakes up with nightmares every night, he has suffered from frequent nightmares sine he was about 2. I am not going to not "tolerate" his fear. He comes in and sleeps with me when he is scared, we are awake for less than 5 minutes as a result, and it is the one thing that has cured his very early wake ups. He has periods where he doesn't have them and then he doesn't wake up/ come in so I expect he will get there eventually. I guess I am one of the ones you judge, but I mind that very little. Each to their own.

Yes, and they responded with lots of "you are do cruel to your child by preventing them from learning to sleep, and you can't possibly have had it as bad".

It's certainly not an approach I've taken because I don't believe it but I can understand the impulse to respond in kind when you're attacked.

Is this only a thread for those who disagree with the OP?

No, and no-one's implied it is?

Not sure why some people are minimising the effects of poor sleep, you are correct.

A quick Google shows poor sleep is catastrophic to health and mental health, the cause of accidents and suicide.
Good sleep hygiene is paramount in setting up good sleep that continues through out life.
My personal feeling is that those who can't bear for their DC to cry for a few minutes are projecting their own issues, it's often the case in eating/ sleeping issues ( not those with SN)
Probably not what people want to hear but part of being a good parent is self awareness.
Telling someone else that are neglectful, nasty, damaging their DC by putting in good routines and ensuring a good night's sleep is a bit of a clue that they have issues themselves or they don't understand that sleep training is NOT leaving your child to cry for hours.
Telling parents their peacefully snoring child is actually still distressed/ pretending to be asleep is quite frankly batshit.

All parenting is a gamble, pretending you are perfect or need to be the perfect mother to a never ever distressed child is highly toxic and damaging.

This. Christ, people can fuck off with the judgment.

"My personal feeling is that those who can't bear for their DC to cry for a few minutes are projecting their own issues, it's often the case in eating/ sleeping issues ( not those with SN)"

For many, this is not what CC is..... Certainly it wasn't mine (as I said, if we even tried to leave DD she would get increasingly hysterical and vomit). NT, now sleeps great.

And not minimising effects of poor sleep at all.

"All parenting is a gamble, pretending you are perfect or need to be the perfect mother to a never ever distressed child is highly toxic and damaging."

So is telling mothers than they are neglectful and selfish for not sleep training.

@minimarshmallowsmore I wish she would, it would make my life a lot easier. But no she only naps properly in her crib. Had I bundled her out anyway she would have been grumpy and unsettled, maybe had a tiny cat nap in the buggy if I was lucky but most likely not. It would just make for a miserable day and an out of sync routine. Which benefits no one.

Ultimately its down to parental choice and for the most part, circumstances.

Do I think that friends who chose to sleep train are evil people who have inflicted irreparable emotional damage upon their children? No. Would I choose to sleep train my children? Also, no. But as I have mentioned upthread, I am on mat leave, have a very supportive partner, only one child and am able to safely co-sleep.

What I do object to is the hyperbole and opinions presented as facts on both sides of the sleep training argument.

But since I have chosen not to sleep train and some posters therefore assume my child to be chronically sleep deprived and developmentally stunted, I thought it worth sharing a scientific study that used wearable devices and concluded that sleep trained babies on average woke up as frequently as their non-sleep trained counterparts, despite their parents reporting otherwise. The sleep trained babies longest period of sleep was longer than the non-sleep trained babies... But only by 16 minutes.

For balance the parents who sleep trained reported having better moods, higher-quality sleep and less fatigue. I have the utmost sympathy for parents experiencing the effects of poor sleep because I have been/am still there, but the idea that 'giving your baby the gift of sleep' (to use the marketing spin) stops them waking up is simply untrue.

www.bbc.com/future/article/20220322-how-sleep-training-affects-babies

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4643535/

I wish I'd done it earlier than I did with my first 2. They were much happier once they slept better

Ds 3 &4 had to be left to cry sometimes at an earlier age than ds1&2 because of the smaller age gap, I only have 1 pair of hands !

They've always let me know if they are sick during the night or if they have a nightmare/ are unsettled for any reason so doesn't seem to have done any harm

Actually the older 2 are 27 and 19 and I can say it did them no harm at all

Each to their own

Well yes, it's maybe understandable, but not constructive. Nor is it any better to call parents who don't sleep train selfish and neglectful than to say it to those who do.

I sleep trained the younger ones, eventually. Maybe when they were a bit older. How on earth can you not, when you have three close together, and a full time job!

Okay well if I was in your shoes I would have taken the "contact nap and not get anything else done option" I mean presumably you can still go out when she's woken up. It's not that there's no choice, it's just you're choosing your own convenience on this occasion. I contact napped every single one of my daughter's naps when we were at home, and planned my day around them. I wouldn't have left her to cry for 10 minutes.

I didn't say everyone should sleep train, just form good habits.
It's not toxic or damaging, it's called being a parent !

@minimarshmallowsmore this is the issue - you say it's for my own convenience as if I'm selfishly choosing to distress my child so I can sit with a cuppa and put my feet up. I have other dc. If I contact napped every time I wouldn't get anything done. When she's awake she has my full attention, when she's asleep I get washing, cooking, housework etc done. That isn't convenience, it's necessity. Is it fair on my older dc to come home to no dinner and no clean uniform because I've been sat 'contact napping' all day? I would take 10 minutes of whinging (I did go in and soothe her by the way) over a day of chaos, grumpiness and letting down my other children.

Congratulations though, I'm sure you think you're a far better parent than me. Personally I choose common sense.

@minimarshmallowsmore apologies if I've missed this but is DD your only child?

Yes she's my only child. There has to be a way of dealing with that though, not everybody with more than one child sleep trains or leaves their child to cry. Contact napping doesn't take up the whole day. I would find ways of getting these things done when my child is awake. Slings, letting them play with toys close to you etc. That's a thing some people do.

The other two things I would say is:

(1) the people who say CC doesn't involve lots of crying obviously had babies that responded fairly well to it. I know lots of people where it involved -literally - hours of crying, one couple where it failed entirely and some where they had to repeat the process many times over. The idea that it's a day or two of some "fussing" and the sleep is perfect forever more is not the reality for many people who try it.

(2) not wanting to sleep train doesn't = no good habits or never leaving your baby to grumble/ fuss as seems to be the suggesting in many of these posts.

It's very naive to think there 'must be a way'. Everyone's circumstances are different. The difference is I don't judge people who opt to do the gentle parenting thing although I do think there are issues with it but those who do it tend to think they are the superior parent. It doesn't surprise me that you only have one child. Let's see how you manage it you ever have more.

@EndlessRain1 True, every child is different.
But controlled crying does seem to be harder to do as babies get over one years old and with toddlers.

It's very easy to say that when you're not in that position.

And I say that as someone who contact naps (when DS wants to) and chooses not to sleep train. I can recognise that there are factors that enable me to make these choices, and that not everyone is in the same position.