To think the encouragement to delay real life is a big cause in the explosion of mental health issues in under 35's ?

[rudolphrainbownose]

Okay, so there is a well documented mental health crisis amongst young people , particularly university students, needing mental health support.

Is it just me or is the current culture of delaying "real adulthood" ( staying at school longer, young marriage/ pregnancy actively discouraged and frowned upon, uni unofficially taking the school leaving age to 23 for middle class young people, staying living at their parents well into their late 20's/ early 30's....)

To me it seems discouraging starting real adult life is fuelling this.

1. Young women are told not to expect "security" in relationships, they are almost told to expect being ghosted by a series of men "not wanting to put a label on it," and going on a series of disastrous online dates is better than settling down young. Look how much marriage amongst under 25's is frowned upon on Mumsnet.

But I don't see many aspects of the dating scene today, ("friends with benefits" being cool, sex often expected without commitment before or afterwards on the first couple of dates, having to actually spell out you don't want the guy you are dating online to continue dating others online, being ghosted and blocked for no reason, being particularly healthy for the mental health of young people). Yet this is sold to them as more empowering than settling down into a steady relationship at a relatively young age....

2. I'll expect to be flamed for this, but the active discouragement of having children in your 20's , probably robs a lot of women of a focus, ( because having your own family is often a nice focus), than drifting around without a purpose gives them. This also leads to probably more people experiencing the panic of miscarriage and infertility , ( risks increasing with age), into their 30's.

3. Active encouragement into University without thinking often leads to a horrendously mentally unhealthy lifestyle.

For those with a passion for the subject, or doing a vocational course that leads to a career, of course university should be supported.

But that is not the case for your average student. Your average student goes to uni because, broadly speaking, it's what their college or sixth form expects of anyone vaguely academic. They pick a subject with no fixed career that they are at best, vaguely interested in, ( managed to scrape a B in business studies A Level, hated it the least, so I'll do it at uni to delay working for three years).

They head to uni to study a subject they are not particularly interested in, ith no idea what it will lead to afterwards. Most, have at most, six hours a week contact time, ( often less post covid). They sleep in late, browse the internet and get smashed a few times a week, ( the majority of students I know do not work in term time). Rinse and repeat. And they wonder why living this not very appealing lifestyle leaves students at poor risk of mental health ? And many are encouraged to take on a masters in a subject they are not interested in, with no direct career, to delay entering the real world for another year. They live in a bubble with people of the same age and inexperience as them. Compare that to a 19 year old office juniour being up and about, learning about the world of work, going for after work drinks with colleagues of a variety of ages ?

And the housing crisis means they are still likely to be living at home, ( especially if they are single), until 30. Often treated like overgrown teenagers, still in the habit of explaining to their parents where they are going of an evening. My friend , ( male), was explaining to me that at 28 he was working himself up to staying the night at his new girlfriends as he was so embarrassed to explain where he was to his parents, ( because if he told them he wouldn't be home for dinner as he was staying at his girlfriend's , they'd realise he was having sex).

In short, is delaying marriage, babies, work , moving out and leaving education actually causing everyone to be directionless and unhappy ?

How do you determine which degrees are "worthwhile" or not, exactly? And why do you think the sole purpose of going to university is to get a job in that exact field?

Active encouragement into University without thinking often leads to a horrendously mentally unhealthy lifestyle.
For those with a passion for the subject, or doing a vocational course that leads to a career, of course university should be supported.
But that is not the case for your average student. Your average student goes to uni because, broadly speaking, it's what their college or sixth form expects of anyone vaguely academic. They pick a subject with no fixed career that they are at best, vaguely interested in, ( managed to scrape a B in business studies A Level, hated it the least, so I'll do it at uni to delay working for three years).

This is a load of rubbish OP. If you look at countries with a much higher level of high education, mental health is generally better not worse. You are massively reaching and adding 2 and 2 together to make 349. Based on this alone, YABU.

Not reading the whole thread but it's bloody hard to 'grow up' when you can't afford a house, or in many case even rent. Solve that and you'll probably see things improve.

But we won't, because a powerful cohort of voters seem allergic to new houses being built.

@JemimaTiggywinkles

You're assuming "life" is about getting married, having babies and buying a house. I know lots of people who prioritised those things - most are either divorced or unhappily married. I'm mid-30s and neither married nor have children (bought a house a month ago) and I'm genuinely outraged that you think I have no "life".

I don't understand why you're 'genuinely outraged' that someone thinks that you have no life. If you're really perfectly happy with your lot - being mid 30s and single, why are you taking such offence? If people sneered at me for getting married in my mid 20s and having two children, before 30, and letting my husband have the main career while I was the primary childcare and home maker/part time worker, I wouldn't give a shit because I have been really fucking happy with this. Working part time for the last 20-odd years, and having loads of time for my children and my family and friends. If you really are happy with it, I don't understand why you care what people think, and why you're 'outraged.'

That said, there's nothing wrong with being single in your 30s or 40s etc. And as I said, you don't need to get married at 21-22 and have kids by 25, to have a fulfilling life as the OP suggested. Remaining single and child free is not a life I would want, but each to their own.

There are some quite rude opinions and views on here about women that are still single past 25/26. But there are equally rude and snobby views from people in their 20 and 30s - and probably other age groups - about women/people who get married at 20-21 ish and start having babies in their early 20s and stay in the home town they grew up in....... Like there's something wrong with them because they didn't leave the town they grew up in. A lot of people are very, very happy to stay in the town they were born in. Around the friends that they grew up with and around their family. Also, many people still travel, even if they don't leave their 'home town.'

It's great to have a lovely support network all around you and over a dozen people closeby anytime if you need help. I know a number of people who moved away. Some got married and had children, some stayed single, some got married and stayed child free. Most of them have no one to turn to in an emergency because they left their family and 'old life' back in their home town. AND they were incredibly lonely through COVID. Particularly the single/child free ones. There's a lot to be said about staying in, or close to the town you grew up in. I can never see the point in moving permanently. Life won't be much different. It will be just as hard, but with much less support from family.

Should add that Gen Z are well aware of uni needing to lead to something. I know a couple of lecturers and they've seen a stark difference in course expectations from new students. The 'go to uni and doss around for 3 years mentality' mentality is dated.

I don’t think it’s the lack of marriage and kids but I do agree with the point that young people are often pushed into uni with the view that they will be destitute later in life without some random degree they barely care about

how about encouraging them to get jobs, work up the ladder, move out and go into a house share , get some independence that way

In a lot of places there isn't a ladder to climb.

@JamSandle ?? Most jobs have a chance of progression or chance to increase your earning potential. A friend of mine started working in nandos at 17, quit uni after three weeks, now works training new nandos managers around the country and abroad, he earns £75k a year loves his job no student debt. There is chance for progressing further also. Even with a trade you can set up on your own, take on employees etc

Well that depends on whether you accept the premise that ‘real life’ is only embarked upon with marriage and children, and that both are a requirement for fulfilment and happiness.

but sure, it’s nothing to do with increased awareness and acknowledgement of mental health difficulties, or indeed the pressures of an economy that is vastly different to that experienced by previous generations, it’s all because women aren’t settling down early and popping out kids.

For a lot of jobs, it’s incredibly hard to progress.

Even if you do progress it’s still incredibly hard to get on the property ladder.

Stop with this utter bullshit. Stop blaming everyday people for not being being proactive enough to move out and get well paying progressing jobs. It’s not that simple anymore.

PEOPLE CANT DO THAT BECAUSE OF THE SHIT STATE OF THE COUNTRY. THE GOVERNMENT HAS RUINED THIS COUNTRY.

Why are so many people blind to this? Am I the only one suffering the affects of 10+ years of austerity??? Anyone????

I'm with you @FlissyPaps . Agree with all you said, this thread is so judgemental and I'm just personally glad I don't judge the way some of you all do.
I feel sorry for people like my colleague who may come on here. Approaching 40, still at home, single, no kids, in a low paid job. But does a lot around the house, well liked and a lovely person and trying her best with health issues. I would never judge her. I wish I had more of her personality traits to be honest. I don't judge people on what they have but who they are. Some of the people on here may have it all but they are sorely lacking in empathy. It's also worth remembering that even if you do marry and have kids young, even if you do have the perfect career, one day, you will wake up and it's all gone. Then some of you will become like those people you pity and judge so much....

I’m not sure if follows that being happy with your life means you have to smilingly accept being spoken down to and patronised. It’s a weak gotcha: “Ha! You’re not really happy because if you were you’d be obliged to suck up my overt disrespect!” and is at best disingenuous.

overall though I agree, there’s no one way to achieve happiness and people should be respected for making the life choices that are right for them. The problems come when it’s not respected though, and people can’t seem to wrap their heads around people making different choices to them.

as an aside, and speaking from my own experience, moving away can mean a dramatically different life though.

My DH earns 65k and he says we are low income. According to ONS we are top 10% in terms of PAYE income (double income no kids) but most PAYE earners are struggling so that's not very comforting. I mean we own our flat in London and have a comparatively low mortgage at £1020 per month. But we are definitely just managing, luckier than the people visiting food banks but not miles better. What younger people need in terms of income is a lot higher than previous generations- unless you earn a 6 figure income-£150k, you will need help to buy property and you will worry about heating/bills. People on 45k are worried about rent never mind saving enough to buy your own home or childcare etc...

Moving out of London/SE would mean that you might have lower housing costs but you still get hit by inflation. What matters is that you earn 6 figures or you would still be vulnerable to the various economic push factors whether it's mortgage interest rates, heating bills etc.

Yes yes. Education and independence for women.....such a bad thing 🙄

Most of my friends were gifted 100-200k to buy their own places. Some even got houses purchased for them. I effectively got a gift of £50k for my place because of rent free living for three years. My dad also offered to buy me a house which I could stay in for free which i rejected as I wanted to buy a home in my name in an area of my choice. My friends and I all went to university so whether we went to university or not does not impact our housing situation or choices. Btw my peers are not from rich households, they were just bog standard middle class.

I don't blame my peers who are from asset poor families for being resentful as the inequality in this country means that someone can be on 70-100k but not being able to buy a flat of house within 50 miles of his place of work but someone with asset rich parents would be able to own a house even with very low income. You have to earn an extra 50k to outbid someone with a 200k deposit gifted from parents. Its no longer a meritocracy anymore and everyone in my generation (I am 30) knows it.

My friend , ( male), was explaining to me that at 28 he was working himself up to staying the night at his new girlfriends as he was so embarrassed to explain where he was to his parents, ( because if he told them he wouldn't be home for dinner as he was staying at his girlfriend's , they'd realise he was having sex).

I think this is pretty unusual Dd is 16 if she tells me she is staying over at her boyfriends (same age) I just ask her what time she will be home the next day and to make sure she has done her homework.

DS is 18 and most of his friends in sixth form last year had boyfriend/ girl friends staying over without drama.

I do think we are heading to a mental health crisis but disagree as to why.

Social media has a huge role to play. People post about good aspects of their lives and it is easy to fall into the trap of "everyone else is doing better than me" . I think getting older helps with that as you learn life isn't that perfect.

I don't see university as extending childhood. It's just another step in some peoples life journey. For some people though it's their first taste of independence as the trend seems to be sheltering kids from any form of independence.

How do you determine which degrees are "worthwhile" or not, exactly? And why do you think the sole purpose of going to university is to get a job in that exact field?

@Frabbits i think it's more having a plan, rather than exactly what you study. I was at uni in the early-mid 1990's and most of us had no idea what we were going to do next, and we were given v. little career advice. Neither my parents nor the university seemed to think beyond graduation. It's my fault too, I wasn't focused enough.

My DH and his siblings, however, had it drummed into them that they needed to be ready for the job market when they graduated, and all four of them were. DH started out in the Arts but switched to Computer Science after a year and boy, was that a good move in the 1990's when the tech industry was rapidly growing! He walked into a well-paying job.

I find it interesting that one or two posters on here blame those who move away for uni or jobs for the breakdown of community

I moved away from a small rural village to go to uni and to work. There were no universities within commutable distance at the time (there is one now) and there were hardly any jobs.

Encouraging people to stay in traditionally poorer areas with less opportunities is just encouraging generational poverty.

I was just saying a lot if this to a friend recently. At sixteen I had left school, had a full time job and was financially independent. At seventeen I left home for the first time and at nineteen I permanently left home. I was a resourceful and resilient adult before I’d reached twenty.

Nowadays apparently you can’t even have a full time job at sixteen, why on earth not?

I also said that given the choice (knowing what I know now) I would have chosen to meet my life partner young, at eighteen or nineteen rather than all the boyfriends and useless relationships I did have. I had my children later in life so now, when they should be well into adulthood I’m still dealing with teenage angst etc.

I was an anxious person and horribly bullied at school but had an inner resilience to just get on with it and I mourn the end of the ‘stiff upper lip’ as it can be positive and not just negative - it can teach inner strength.

My son suffers from depression even though his life has been far cushier than my childhood, he just doesn’t seem to have the mental strength I had unfortunately.

So yes I agree with you.

I just wanted to clarify, this thread was not about slagging off young people, ( I'm 30, so I'd like to think relatively young ish).

It's more about how societal set up's seem to be doing more harm than good in a lot of cases, and in some cases damaging ( e.g. the economy making it impossibly difficult to leave home at a reasonable age, and the government doing nothing about it cos it suits their vested interests to keep house prices artificially high). It's not a young people are spoilt and don't know they're born premise. It's more, I'm not sure it's fair that current set up/ habbits/ expectations are negatively damaging young people's mental health.

R.E University - it's not about not going or being an inverted snob. It's about encouraging a bit of direction and purpose.

Actively encourage young people to have a plan with direction. Do a dentistry or surveying or physiotherapy or nursing degree, or a B'ed in teaching, with a direct pathway into a rewarding career.

Want to be a graphic designer, absolutely do a graphic design degree and spend three years building an amazing portfolio.

If you are passionate about a humanities subject, e.g. criminology or sociology, enjoy studying it and plan a career in research or probation etc.

Going to university with this sort of purpose is great. However, I also have at least three male friends who did history/ geography / sociology degrees. None were remotely interested in the subject, wanted to work in the subject area post qualifying or were particularly academic, ( C grades at A Level). They openly admitted they went to uni cos it was what was expected. They admit they sat around halls/ student houses playing computer games into the early hours, with a maximum six hours contact time a week and rarely getting out of bed before 1.00pm. Due to the need to repeat years etc this often turned into a four year period. No, I don't think sitting around halls in your dressing gown whilst playing computer games and attending six hours a week, ( and I do not blame them for this , it's a disgrace unis are allowed to charge so much for so little), whilst rarely mixing with the outside world was good for them. I don't blame them at all, cos they were doing what was expected of them, "pick a degree, go to uni, you don't need to have a plan as to what would happen afterwards).

It was not a healthy lifestyle to lead for four years, ( they complained of insomnia, depression etc), and yes would have probably been better off if they'd picked a vocational degree with a purpose or been mixing and socialising with a variety of people at work.

I don't think it's unkind to argue that encouraging them into the directionless lifestyle above probably created some significant mental health difficulties. I've also noticed the people I knew who went to uni with a degree with a purpose, ( e.g. pharmacy, nursing etc with placements), seemed to do much better as they couldn't do the above for four years straight.

What's your situation, OP? Did you go to uni and do you feel that it had a negative impact on your wellbeing? If you're married with kids, what age did you start a family?

Do you feel that you have direction in your own life? If so, where does that come from?

I find it very hard to get my head around the notion that "real life" only starts when you settle down into marriage with kids etc. That seems such a narrow, limiting perspective to me. So sad to think that all of the wonderful things that you could do in your young and carefree years are perceived as merely filling time while you're waiting for real life to start. It's no wonder that people end up with mental health problems if that's how they look at things. I see things very differently indeed.

I agree completely OP. I don’t think you’re being unkind at all. I’m early 30s, a lot of the girls from school who left to do ‘subject’ degrees (history, geography, sociology etc) have ended up in vague ‘marketing’ type jobs, on an average wage but most living in London and sinking that money into extortionate rent and repaying student loans. Lots still single and enduring the hell that is online dating, a few regularly phoning in tears about ‘ending up alone’. They may have had a good time at uni and a gap year but are now £££s in debt and feel a bit underwhelmed by life after the first few exciting and carefree years. Equally the girls I know who left to do apprenticeships or similar are on a good wage, have debt and are satisfying their urge to travel with regular holidays (which to me is a lot more appealing than one batch travelling followed by being skint for years!)

*have no debt

God you’re just spouting so much bullshit.

Actively encourage young people to have a plan with direction. Do a dentistry or surveying or physiotherapy or nursing degree, or a B'ed in teaching, with a direct pathway into a rewarding career.

These aren’t rewarding careers. You know why?

Because the government are not paying well enough into these public services. The NHS is on its knees. Its crumbling.

We have some of the longest working hours in Europe. Shit pay. Shit maternity pay. Shocking statutory sick pay. The list goes on and on.

You’re just not getting it OP. You’re living in cuckoo land.

Just stop it. Please. It’s fucking insulting.