….. to wonder exactly WHAT specific lie was told to protect Price William ?

[Thisisnotreallymyname]

Just that !
In the trailers for the next Harry / Meghan Netflix , Harry talks about how Courtiers lied to protect William .
Hmmmm - what could he gave done that needed lies told to us ?

The alleged lie is that it was a joint statement from both brothers when Harry claims he had no knowledge of it and was not consulted. I'm pretty ambivalent about H & M but I think that's a pretty accurate example of a lie.

According to HarrThe alleged lie is that it was a joint statement from both brothers when Harry claims he had no knowledge of it and was not consulted. I'm pretty ambivalent about H & M but I think that's a pretty accurate example of a lie.

I agree it's a lie if they released that statement knowing that Harry thought William had bullied him out. If they released a statement that they believed Harry agreed with, I'm not sure that would be a lie. Maybe high-handed not getting a sign off but not a lie.

But it's confusing because I thought that Harry was leaving to protect Meghan from committing suicide. Not that William had bullied him. Although could Harry not stand up to William? Had they never argued before? I don't really understand what the timeline on all this is.

But it's confusing because I thought that Harry was leaving to protect Meghan from committing suicide.

It says 'part of the reason'

Probably nothing given that M&H are consummate liars.

Oh, OK. Thanks. Part of the reason was to protect Meghan and part of the reason was because his brother bullied him? Or were there lots of reasons?

Oh, OK. Thanks. Part of the reason was to protect Meghan and part of the reason was because his brother bullied him? Or were there lots of reasons?

I don't know any more than what's written there

Oh, OK. Thanks. Part of the reason was to protect Meghan and part of the reason was because his brother bullied him? Or were there lots of reasons?

I guess from vol 1 there's also the reason that the royal family is funded by empire and slavery.

I haven't watched the episodes, only going by what I've read in left- and rightwing press.

Ultimately, I'm left thinking everyone is playing everyone else but the difference is for what purpose. Charles and William (and their supporting spouses and siblings) can say (who knows if it's true, that's the virtue of never complain and never explain) they're doing it for King and country. Harry you can say is doing it because he's just a mess, still struggling with not having received what he needed as a child and young adult. Meghan - I think she's doing it for whatever she can get.

The whole thing is pretty distasteful. At the scene of every disaster there are those who stand and watch, fascinated; and there are those who walk away out of respect or empathy or dignity or because they've been there themselves and don't need to see. If Harry were the son of Rupert Murdoch, or Jeff Bezos, or Xi Jinping and spilled the beans like this, people would watch just to see behind the curtain. But ultimately there's nothing going on in those families that doesn't happen in families up and down the land. The richer and more famous the people, the more grim, sordid, venal, grubby it is. It's just wrapped up in jewels, designer clothes, big houses and fame/infamy.

I have just watched all this. Very interesting.

Body language is a pseudoscience and unreliable, who needs to watch yet more white dude 'experts' mansplaining other people's experiences.

H&M may be awful people, they may be lovely, I have no clue and I don't really care. But it'd be naive to think a family set up like the Royals would be anything other than unhealthy and toxic. The question is why do people defend it so adamantly, like "of course H&M are lying terrible people, this could not possibly happen..." when what they're describing is par for the course in most big corporations, it's basic PR to protect the figureheads and hang those below out to dry whenever there are issues.

The problem is expecting the Royals to be a functional, healthy family when they are first and foremost a corporation. Looks like Harry has had enough of playing the game, and I say good on him. Having worked within an abusive organisation set up to function "like a family" (which didn't recognize abuse / intend to be abusive but absolutely was) I know too well what an absolute mindfuck it is. And that's without them being my actual family - that has to be horrendous. Going NC is completely understandable.

Having watched the shitshow of press aimed at the royal women from Sarah and Dianna when I was a kid to Kate and Meghan now, I think the whole institution - tabloid press and the Monarchy - should burn to the ground. It's disgusting and they are absolutely right to call it bullying. Finally someone has the balls to say it.

Great post skydaze I totally agree.

“But it'd be naive to think a family set up like the Royals would be anything other than unhealthy and toxic. The question is why do people defend it so adamantly, like "of course H&M are lying terrible people, this could not possibly happen..."
**
The problem is expecting the Royals to be a functional, healthy family when they are first and foremost a corporation. Looks like Harry has had enough of playing the game, and I say good on him.

I am a republican, I also am sure being a working royal where the role of family member and employee is conflated throws up problems, resentments and quarrels. However, I have little sympathy for H and M as they have said too many things that contradict what H has said previously meaning I do not trust what they say. For example he said his family didn’t support his mental health problems when a few years ago he said in an interview William encouraged him to get therapy. Harry also now says his father wasn’t there for him after his mum died. Yet again he said a few years ago his father gave him and his brother a lot of support.

Also Harry and Meghan didn’t want to walk away from the royal family they wanted a half in half out role. The Palace said this was not possible. It is only then he starts criticising the institution. I just feel there is a lot of hypocrisy which I have no sympathy with.

Now today it comes out in the last 3 Netflix episodes Harry says William bullied him as he shouted at him at what now has been called the Sandringham summit. What Harry neglects to say is this summit was hastily called when he and Meghan went ahead and released an official statement saying they were taking a step back from being working royals and would be half in and half out. None of this had been agreed apparently and so it was premature to release this statement before everything had been signed off. I am not surprised at the meeting William was angry with how his brother had gone about things. H and M releasing that statement prematurely sounded manipulative to me.

Also H is saying that at the summit H was presented with various choices, one of which was to be half in half out which he said he wanted, but then the palace would not agree and his brother got angry with him so H and M felt they had to leave. Yet this doesn’t add up as it was the fact that h and m went ahead and announced they wanted a half in half out role before it had been agreed. I think it’s understandable the institution- whether you agree with it or not as existing - says a half in half out role would not work with H and M trying to straddle US celebrity with royal duties. I don’t blame H and M if they say being a working royal is not for them but it feels like they wanted their cake and eat it and have thrown their dummies out of the pram. And it’s sad because he and Megan could’ve gone to California built a new life and kept ties with his English family visiting in holidays. Instead h and m have seemed to have gone around it in a destructive way.

Body language is a pseudoscience and unreliable, who needs to watch yet more white dude 'experts' mansplaining other people's experiences.

Actually I think they are very unbiased and even handed on the Behaviour Panel. For instance, they believed all the things that Harry said. Or at least they believed that Harry believed what he said. But they pointed out really interesting points about his relationship with Diana and Meghan.

I've learned quite a few things about watching different YouTubers but, I confess, I am open to new ideas and having my perceptions challenged.

I don't understand what their skin colour has to do with anything.

How or why did it take so long to make?
I haven't seen it so can someone tell me why they couldn't have recorded all this in a week? Clearly they've been collecting pictures and videos for years. What footage is there between OW and now, so 18 months, that made a significant impact on the telling of this story, or maybe something they were waiting for that they expected would make a significant impact, that it stopped it from being released earlier?
Thanks.

@ganachee it seems that the hardest thing for all concerned were the practicalities of having part time Royals who lived outside of the UK. It was problematic for engagements, security, etc.

I think that was part of it, but I read a biographer of a recent book of the Queen say today there is government policy on who and what is allowed to register ‘royal’ trademarks for commercial gain. I think this made it difficult too. Prince Edward and his wife tried to combine being working royals and having their own commercial ventures and it didn’t work. Too much conflict of interest.

I honestly didn't bother watching the behavior panel, 4 white dudes with skin in the game (ie money to make off these vids) turned me off instantly and then I read into their background and wasn't impressed.

Body language swings so easily into pseudoscience because it paints with broad brush strokes and doesn't often treat itself with scepticism, ie its proponents usually believe wholeheartedly in their own conclusions and that this press of the lips here means xyz when in reality someone could press their lips together because they have a coldsore coming or they just farted and are hoping no one notices.

There are way too many variables in any given situation to give anything more than a maybe to any body language interpretation. It can be useful sure, but it's not concrete, guaranteed, able to be proved / disproved, with massive variables in play and hence is known to be unreliable. Making money off it muddies the waters further.

Actual doctors and therapists know not to armchair diagnose and not to comment on those they are not treating and have never met. But the internet is awash with these 'experts' making money doing exactly that. And no one can argue against it cos it's special sauce magic whatever.

As for Harry contradicting himself - sure that could mean he's lying, manipulating or being manipulated. However having worked with victims of domestic violence it is not at all uncommon for victims to speak positively about their abusers, to minimise or deny harm as a way to survive, or to not even recognize abuse until it's so severe it lands them in hospital. Humans are complex, trauma and toxicity causes people to act / think / speak in unpredictable ways, it's not all just rocking in a corner crying and cringing. I've seen women absolutely in love with their partner who beats the shit out of them.

So yeah - when someone claims an abusive or toxic relationship, and acts unpredictably, contradicts themselves, acts against their interests, speaks positively about someone who hurt them and then speaks negatively - it's kinda par for the course and it makes me more likely to believe there's some truth in it. Maybe not the whole truth, but some. Situations are multifaceted, relationships even more so. It's not as black and white as simply who's lying and who's telling the truth.

It’s called a “trailer” for a reason. Wait and watch then make a judgement

In regard to body language, Harry has literally been trained since birth to control his face and body when in public as anything he does may end up in the press.

Meghan is a trained actress whom OK was never A list but was at least vaguely recognisable in public and therefore learnt to show a public persona long before she met Harry.

I would be very interested to know if any consideration was given to the fact that both of them have/had jobs where it’s expected they won’t display honest body language in public but rather show a smooth, unruffled surface appearance (which, by the way I also think Diana and Kate learned to do shortly after they came into the public eye). I genuinely don’t think anything can be told about whether Royals are being truthful by the body language of any of them. I’m fairly sure many engagements bore rigid the Royal doing them - I’m not going to call any of them on the ‘I’m delighted to be here’ style lies. I also suspect Kate and William weren’t happy at various points on the Caribbean tour but they didn’t let it show.

After reading this I can see that you're telling the truth when you say you didn't watch the Behaviour Panel. You've made casual assumptions about the content of the video because of your inherent bias.
To be honest, I see no difference between you and those who criticise Meghan Markle, a biracial chick who's got skin in the game to make money off this doc. 🙄

Couldn't agree more.

Great post

The Monarchy and the media working hand in hand a lot of the time
It's all a business - they even told us so - 'the firm'
Laughing all the way to the bank

Loving the pictures of Catherine’s carol service last night. And apparently no issues at all with wearing the same colour. 😎

Almost as if their staff watched the documentary and fed back about it, and the Firm’s silent response was the united “burgundy fascism” as another poster brilliantly put it: it makes for great pictures and thus lots of coverage for Kate’s little show, especially as she wheeled out her daughter to match; and it makes Meghan look like a liar – even though she never said she wasn’t allowed to wear the same colour, she said she took it upon herself not to, so as to blend in.

Behaviour Panel colluding with the Monarchy?
Kate setting up a fascist dress code for a recorded Christmas carol service?
Any more paranoid suggestions, keep them coming in.