to be so narked about the vile child at toddler group

[IndigoMoon]

I go to a toddler group on a friday, I go with a friend and it is a lovely group. It gets me out, i get a cup of coffee and a biscuit and ds tires himself out.

there is one child who is 2 years plus and he is the most awful kid! he kicks, punches and generally runs riot with no supervision from his mom.

we were sitting in a circle today just before the end doing the singing bit and ds was crawling to me. this child ran up to him and kicked him in the face!!!!

i went ballistic, stood up with screaming ds (14 months) and shouted at this mom that her son had just kicked my son.

the boy had run to her and she just shrugged. she then bought her son over to play again and asked if ds was ok. i said yes but said that it was particulary nasty, no accident. she said "ah he is a child" at which i said yes but it was vicious. the boy then went on to try to kick another child, punched a child and generally again was allowed to get away with it.

i spoke to one of the leaders and they did have a word with her but a few moms came and asked if i was alright and commented on how awful this child is.

i am more than likely going next week i am tempted to go and tell this mom that if her son lays another finger on my son that i am making an official complaint.

i dont think he should be made to leave but surely the group have the powers to tell her to watch him more closely!!!!!

Ooooh - I'm a bit late to this, but yes Batters, I did/do post under another name.

I don't kno hat the other posters have said but if the mother did not supervise and tell off her DC then I ould do the telling off (in a kind way). Also I would speak to the group organisers, if they aren't bothered about prents supervising then they have to!

Agh why I avoid mother and toddler/baby groups like the plague

i think you must keep pointing this out to the group leaders. it sounds to me (a mere possibility) that this mum may not be coping that well with parenting, could be part of pnd, or something else and the staff should be alerted. have you tried mildly talking to the child in question? how does the mum react?

Sorry I left the thread for so long.
Computer kept saying 'no'!
Sorry if hunker and lulumama or anyone else thinks this is ott. I do have to point out though that I have it on good authority that dd is very bright and is developmentally more like a 3yo IYSWIM.. therefore, I discipline at the level of her understanding. I agree that with some 2yo that would not be appropriate, they may not understand. However, from dd being about 20mths time out with no audience was the only effective discipline for her. If I timed her out in eye contact of others she would show off to them.
I say the proof of the pudding is in the eating- I rarely get tantrums in public, dd has never attacked another child in any way/place we have been to. Neither have the 2 toddlers I mind.

On the point of toddler discipline in general, it is only affective if done as the incident occurs. There is no point in dealing with it when you get home because the toddler will not connect the incident with the consequences, so IMHO it is better to do as I do than leave the behaviour un checked.

only read the op and the first few posts, but you could be describing my ds as the "vile" child . He is a biter, a hitter, a kicker and especially a puller of hair. he bit a little girl at soft play the other week and the mother (poss. grandmother) came over and really had a go. i was so embarrassed and apologised and told ds NO very firmly (as he always gets told when he does this) but he is 13 months and i don't think he understands NO yet, really.

i think you need to chill out a bit - is dd your PFB? if you don't have a biter/hitter/hair puller yourself, i guess it's reasonable to be a bit shocked when something like that happens to them. if ds gets his hair yanked or his fingers bit, i can shrug it off because i know it's no worse than he would do to another child!

sorry if this has all been said before, but it's something i feel quite strongly about!

(and LOLOLOLOL at the idea of a fine!!)

What really annoys me is when mothers think that play group is a creche and just sit there, oblivious to what their own children are doing; I have seen them sit and read a newspaper!! We would all like "time out" but a play group is not the place.

If a child had kicked my DD, I would have been livid too - it is only natural to be protective of our children.

Maybe the mother should have taken him out or home or used some other sanction so that he knew that his behavior was not acceptable.

some kid (3yrs)at toddler group ran up to my 9 month baby last week when he was in a walker and shouted right in his face to get out.DS bottom lip quivered before big cries. 3yr old was with his dad who was kicking back relaxing and ignoring him running riot. so annoying!!!

i love fenella

fenella you are great

Minnie and LuluMum - completely agree with you. My dd (2) so far has not been a biter/hitter/hair puller etc but if she was, I know for a fact I'd watch her like a hawk round other kids. I'd be devastated if my dd was kicked in the face. I do have a friend who's son behaves this way and I watch for him approaching my dd and move her away. When he does manage to bite or hit though, the parent of said child barely says an audible no to him and this is what I object to.

Indigomoon totally sympathise with you over the incident. Its happened to me and my dd a few times at toddler groups and I am always astonished at the mums obliviousness to their child's behaviour. Unfortunately it also extends into nurserys, playgroups and school. In fact I've heard a mother moan about another child's aggressive behaviour while her child was considered by everyone else to be the class bully! I always think these people must be in denial or hope others will be too polite to comment. I accept some children are naturally going to be more boisterous/naughty but it is the parents job to establish and maintain the boundaries of acceptable behaviour whatever type of child you have (and if you find it difficult there is help out there). I've often witness parents of these children giving them a telling off and then they are let loose again. I think a telling off and warning for the first offence and then taken straight home if they repeat it would be more appropriate and effective. I have had a talk (even though at times I have wanted to shout at them so can sympathise with you) with the said mums a few times but I can't say its done much good either its "he/she's not doing anything" or "what else can I do I've told him/her off."
I would talk to the group leader and see if they can have a word although in my experience some just do not want to get involved!.

At some point everyone's child is hurt by another child.
At some point everyone's child hurts another mothers child.
The thing is how you deal with it.
Would you let your child get away this? I very doubt it, so why should the op have to watch this little boy being allowed to hurt her child and other children on a regular basis and watch the mother ignore it. I think that is the point.
Discipline is a harsh word, but on the other hand watching your child be ostracized by their peers because their behaviour is awful is even more harsh, as a parent part of your job is to help your child learn to socialise in a positive way.

At some point everyone's child is hurt by another child.
At some point everyone's child hurts another mothers child.
The thing is how you deal with it.
Would you let your child get away this? I very doubt it, so why should the op have to watch this little boy being allowed to hurt her child and other children on a regular basis and watch the mother ignore it. I think that is the point.
Discipline is a harsh word, but on the other hand watching your child be ostracized by their peers because their behaviour is awful is even more harsh, as a parent part of your job is to help your child learn to socialise in a positive way.

(sorry had to stop half way through ... and I hadn't realised I had pressed post)
Obviously there is always the child who can't help their behaviour, but hopefully as a parent you can still help your child to learn to modify their ways.

Sorry, not read all posts. Violet, agree VERY strongly. Ds at the moment is a lil Hannibal. I am at a loss. Have tried all I know, as a primary school teacher, with no success. But 'time out' at home means him and I stop playing. He does not miss anything. Now at nursery, if excluded, even for 5 observed mins, he can see what he is missing out on. I AM MORTIFIED! Less take his teeth out, WHAT CAN I DO? Have appoligised to all the group, and we all watch him. He knows it is wrong to bite. But when he is very excited, he bites and nips. I AM DESPERATE! (But not a bad mummy!)

blanki - just your attitude shows you are different to some of the parents posters who sympathise with the op have descbribed. If you have apologised to the group and you watch him and give him time out's etc - I don't see there is much more you can do. Aside perhaps from giving him a warning the first time and taking him away from the situation he is so enjoying if he does it again ? It sounds harsh but maybe he just needs a stronger message ??

I guess kids grow out of this kind of behaviour at some point but I don't know when ??

If a child bit my dd and the mother was mortified and came over and apologised after dealing with her childs actions - that would be the best I'd hope for as I know this is what some children do.

Keep your chin up...you can only do so much.

Your child is 14 months? Just you wait another year and you may see this differently. I agree the mum should have intervened - especially if her child is more inclined to behave like this but beleive me kicking, etc is fairly common amongst children of that age. In fact I would say there are more children that display this behaviour than don't. My DD occasionally kicks, etc but I always make sure I am watching and intervene. She has also been on the receiving end which whilst upsetting has never bothered me if the child has been dealt with.