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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to be annoyed that a stranger lined my children up and took their picture in the park without asking permission?

273 replies

IlanaK · 01/02/2008 14:31

In Regent's park today with a friend. Three boys all way ahea dof us on the path scootering. A group of tourist men lined them up with the stream and trees as backdrop and took their phot before we could get to them.

They got a right telling of from me though.

Was I being unreasonable?

OP posts:
seeker · 02/02/2008 23:35

Oh stuffitll -i am so very sorry to hear about what happened to you. It must have been awful -and I understand why you are so careful with your dcs. But when I was 9, I fell off a horse and fractured my skull. I was unconcious for a week. I still let my dd ride. I would love to stop her - but I can't let my experience blight her childhood. Maybe you are in the same position?

stuffitall · 02/02/2008 23:39

Well I am. But as I said, my children walk to school alone, often in the dark.. I'm sure you can imagine how nervous I feel. But I don't stop them doing it. I do however tell them not to stop if someone talks to them or asks the time. I've never told them why, and what happened to me is not the only reason. Far far worse things happen to others. But they are told they just don't stop, they keep walking, they cross the road. Because I know how long it takes. Less time than it takes to cry out that's for sure.

dittany · 02/02/2008 23:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ubergeekian · 03/02/2008 00:18

dittany: "You're examining the wrong group. The group of interest is all the people who want to take photographs of children they have no connection with in public, a much lower number. Out of that particular group the number of men who might be wanting to take photographs for nefarious purposes might make up a much higher percentage."

Might. Or might not. Still no evidence, you see. Still no need to panic.

stuffitall · 03/02/2008 00:23

I think Dittany has a very valid point. The group to be examined is the group of men who want to take photographs of children not their own. Obviously there would be a larger percentage of people doing it for nefarious purposes, as most of the population has no reason for doing it at all.

Nobody is panicking. You're being a bit facile.

Ubergeekian · 03/02/2008 00:34

stuffitall: "I champion personal and individual freedom. But on this issue I would never ever take a single chance with my or anyone else's child."

In 2006, 2025 children (aged 0 - 15) were killed or seriously injured on Britain's roads (pages 101 & 102, here).

In 2002-3, there were 59 child abductions by strangers (here).

Your child is therefore around thirty times more likely to be killed or seriously injured in a road accident than to be abducted by a stranger. How do the precautions you take against each compare?

dittany · 03/02/2008 00:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ubergeekian · 03/02/2008 00:41

stuffitall: "The group to be examined is the group of men who want to take photographs of children not their own."

Men? Why men?

s: "Obviously there would be a larger percentage of people doing it for nefarious purposes, as most of the population has no reason for doing it at all."

OK, so what proportion of men who take photographs do you believe to be doing so for nefarious purposes? What evidence do you have to support that belief?

nappyaddict · 03/02/2008 00:44

it wouldn't bother me.

Ubergeekian · 03/02/2008 00:47

dittany: "I'm not sure what you mean by no evidence, a number of people here who have either had direct experience of child protection work or knows someone that has have said that there are men who do take photos of children to use in child pornography. If you want to ignore them, that's up to you, but don't pretend that people haven't presented facts here."

Facts are not "I know this bloke and he says it goes on so it must be happening all the time and for God's sake will nobody think of the children."

Child protection workers claimed that satanic abuse was rife in Orkney. They were utterly wrong, and caused huge and lasting damage to children because they didn't bother to ascertain the facts.

So before I'm persuaded that having my son photographed by strangers without asking my permission (what would you say if they asked you for permission) is any more than slightly bad manners, I want some hard evidence, not rumour and supposition. Is that so unreasonable?

stuffitall · 03/02/2008 00:56

It's not rumour and supposition, you know that.

You are very scared of social services for some reason, or very angry about something, and I think it's colouring your argument.

This doesn't compare to the Orkney case and you know that too.

dittany · 03/02/2008 00:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

stuffitall · 03/02/2008 01:01

dittany -- you said everything i wanted to but got too cross to articulate! night

dittany · 03/02/2008 01:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Breizhette · 03/02/2008 09:02

When I went on holiday to Mongolia(for example), I took pictures of children in the street because I thought they looked adorable. On holiday and travel pictures from my family and friends, there are often photographs of local children.
I really don't see how taking pictures of children in a park is a weird and deviant thing to do.
I actually think it's weird to see evil everywhere. As someone sais earlier in the thread, it's very Chris Morris.

ElfOnTheTopShelf · 03/02/2008 09:15

This thread just illustrates how sad and suspicious our little world has become.

My BIL is wary of taking DD anywhere by himself because he worries what people might think of him, that people could misconstrue the situation. How utterly sad is that?

I dont think I would have been bothered if somebody had taken a picture of my DD (though she is only two, so I doubt it would have happened without my permission). Strangers talk to my DD all the time - she's just one of those loud funny children that attracts attention and people talk to her / offer her sweets etc. It doesn't bother me, so long as DD is with me / DH / other family.

redadmiral · 03/02/2008 09:21

I do understand people's fear of child abuse, and don't want to belittle it. I had the same type of experience when I was about 9, asked the time, quickly grabbed and sexually assaulted. Fortunately it was pretty mild, and I managed to escape quickly and feel I have no bad repurcussions.Obviously I'm always aware of that as a possibility with my children, but wouldn't let it affect their interactions with adults (not saying I'm better, it's just what's right for me.)

I think people who would like to curb people's freedom to enjoy taking photographs outdoors (and the way some people are talking that's any man with a camera and potentially a long lens) should have a bloody good reason for that, and I've yet to hear one on here.

Chequers · 03/02/2008 09:34

Message withdrawn

redadmiral · 03/02/2008 09:54

I'm not telling people how to parent. I'm saying I'm saddened by the fact that people are condoning being rude or abusive to a stranger, who even they admit are more likely than not to be innocent of malice.

stuffitall · 03/02/2008 09:55

agree chequers.. I wouldn't do it but if seeker wants to so be it. She had some really good things to say to children on the subject. But no one can tell me I should allow it, or that I'm causing my children "infinite harm" by not allowing it. Red Admiral, I'm sorry for you too.

But it is odd to take pictures of children in a park without a parent. Especially nowadays. It's just odd. So I think, why? And who does it hurt to stop it? As seeker says, the "nice adults" will not get upset. So I would stop it.

Breizhette · 03/02/2008 10:02

Stuffitall, have you never taken pictures of a child in the street while on holiday?

Chequers · 03/02/2008 10:07

Message withdrawn

redadmiral · 03/02/2008 10:09

Thanks stuffitall. I think I was incredibly lucky in that I feel totally fine about it compared to how it affects some people. (Off the subject, the one thing it taught me is to trust my intuition - the thing I remember most strongly is a feeling I had before he approached me.)

I think it's rude to take pictures of people without their permission, but I'm aware that male photographers are now being reprimanded just for being in a park taking pictures of the scenery, which seems terribly unfair. (Especially as the kind of people who love gadgets like cameras are often the tecchie kind of bloke who isn't good at social interaction.)
I take my camera to the park and photograph my children - there may be others in frame. I don't need to check as I'm a woman and unlikely to attract suspicion, but i do feel sorry for men who can't do the same.

teakettle · 03/02/2008 10:12

I think that 'nice adults' may get upset if they get 'a right telling off' or are 'pushed in a stream' or 'have their noses boinked'. Not suggesting that you would do this stuffitall but other posters seem to think that it is ok. fwiw. I think that my childrens lives are enhanced by interactions with other humans so I will continue to allow reasonable contact.

seeker · 03/02/2008 11:14

OK - I am going to launch myself onto thin ice here and I've got my wet suit on - but I do a think that not everything is a matter of opinion. I believe very strongly that it is wrong to bring children up thinking that the world is a dangerous threatening place.

I think children need to learn how to trust their judgement and they will never do this if they aren't allowed to talk to strangers.

And I don't want to perpetuate a world where a lonely old person on a bench can't chat about football to a lively 6 year old in broad daylight in the middle of a market square.

I think perpetuating this sort of world means the bad guys have won.