To be horrified at the number of women financially vulnerable

[Mammalamb]

Every time I’ve been on mn recently, there is yet another thread about a woman being financially abused : used by her “d” p.

do we need some sort of financial literacy or something for young women? Do we need some more help around self esteem for women to stop them putting up with this shit?

personally, I think if you’re going to be having kids or living together, then get married. Appreciate not everyone wants marriage. But if you don’t, make sure you are financially protected

Absolutely this....you talk so much sense...too many threads recently where the women have left themselves so vulnerable 🙁

For those that have sadly experienced financial abuse do you think it would be useful for education around that topic be brought into schools too?

I feel that both physical and emotional abuse is talked about more these days but financial less so. Highlighting examples of what abusers do as well as what victims feel would be beneficial I would think but I have not experienced it so don’t know if I correct in think that

Saying that I have seen some good posters on the tube in London recently from HSBC explaining what financial abuse is so maybe it is starting to be talked about more

Financial abusers are not the kind of men who can be 'made' to do half the childcare.

Unless you are with a really decent man, you and your children are better off in a single parent household with the state supplementing wages than with a man who is never going to contribute 50/50.

So basically women who are abused aren’t as educated or forward thinking as you lot?

oh and they should also marry their abusers?!

what the fuck am I reading here

I think it’s a combination of a few factors:

• marriage being viewed as a romantic arrangement; that is often avoided by the generation of children that grew up with divorcing parents
• women trying to actively avoid / disprove the suggestion that they are ‘after’ a man’s money
• low self-worth, and a lack of value placed on a woman’s contribution to the household
• high childcare costs, often paid by the woman
• an awkwardness regarding talking about finances
• women tending to work in lower paid roles, so feeling that they make less of a contribution
• women’s earning potential being restricted by the availability of childcare (no anti-social hours / shift work)

It’s the views of society as a whole. I’m an educated woman, in employment, but stuck in this mess. The problem is that I didn’t realise the long-term implications when the relationship began, and now, many years down the line, it’s difficult to bring up, and even more difficult to change.

I thought I was being a strong independent woman by taking nothing from him in the beginning, but I hadn’t considered how weak my own position would become. The thing is, DP wouldn’t see it that way. To his mind, he works, he pays the bills, he is the wonderful provider, and I’d be cheeky to expect anything more. But all the time his pension pot grows, his assets appreciate in value, and he has the luxury of deciding if / when / how to spend his money. Whereas I have the ‘luxury’ of living in his house, but have no assets, negligible savings and live almost pay-cheque to pay-cheque spending most of ‘my’ income on the children. I’m not an idiot, in most respects, but I was foolish and naive about this, and I’m paying the price, I suspect many others are the same.

Yes it's definitely a good idea for children and not just girls to be educated in school.
If you look into physical and emotional abuse information/advice, financial abuse is usually included.

Financial abuse usually is part of emotional abuse and the 'control' aspect.

Can't get warms, get divorced and take 50% of the assets including the pension.

After reading some threads on here, some women use the word abuse very, very loosely. I no longer read anything into the word abuse. He had a different opinion - abuse, he raised his voice or got annoyed - abuse, he said something that I didn't think was kind - abuse, he wanted to leave the house to get space from an angry argument when I didn't want him to - abuse.

So a woman who doesn't work and is mad her husband didn't give her an unlimited budget and his credit card to shop to her heart's content will call this financial abuse.

Unfortunately for the woman who do experience true abuse, it is has now become another pop psychology term that gets thrown around to mean anything and therefore nothing. Add it to the pile of words people have made meaningless..... gaslighting, manipulative, bullying, narcissist, red flag, toxic, triggered, love bombing, trauma, etc.

@hangonsnoopy I’m one of the ones that never got married. If I leave, I leave with nothing.

Completely agree

personally, I think if you’re going to be having kids or living together, then get married. Appreciate not everyone wants marriage. But if you don’t, make sure you are financially protected

only get married if you are the financially weaker party. I got married as I stupidly listened to family who advised me to “protect myself”. What has happened is if we ever did split, I will lose half my house, my pension, and the savings I brought into the marriage.

women need to stop seeing childcare as their responsibility, and stopping work as soon as their first child comes along. So many women “because my wage doesn’t cover childcare” aren’t thinking long term, stepping off the employment ladder means they rapidly become a lower earner, and become more dependent on their dh’s wage, so it also becomes impossible for him to reduce hours so she can work. They also don’t think about pensions, or that in 3 years their child will be at school and childcare fees massively reduced.

Can't, if he is leaving you that unprotected would you be better off getting out? That way you could at least get your name down for social housing and have the possibility of owning a home long term. If your name isn't on the mortgage you are effectively a lodger.

There’s an awful lot of talk about educating daughters (which I fully agree with) and little talk about educating our sons. It is really difficult to break cycles of modelled behaviour, and boys being educated on maternity leave, impact of pregnancy on women’s bodies, gender pay gap, equal opportunities, etc has to be part of the conversation. Talking openly about finances and fair contributions has to be bilateral. A lot done, more to do.

If your wages don't cover childcare costs and your partner will not contribute, you can only go to work if you leave him.

Why would you want to be with someone who wouldn't support you to work anyway?

Because you think it is best for the children, because you haven't got the money to leave, because you have low self esteem, because you have been subject to coercive control, because you are being pressured by your family. Lots of reasons.

I agree, if you’re with a partner who isn’t contributing, leave.

@hangonsnoopy financially, yes, I’d be better off single. But life’s not that straight forward, it’s not just about finances, and that’s what stops all of this from being simple. Perhaps that’s another reason that women get stuck in this mess, they don’t want to break up a family for their own financial security. My self-worth doesn’t allow me to prioritise myself over everyone else, even when I can see the logic.

I find this thread a bit distasteful tbh. Yes of course it’s important that girls are educated about financial independence but the undercurrent of this thread is anyone who has found themselves reliant on a man is a bit thick and ignorant and needs educating. How patronising? Many women come from different backgrounds to the insufferable middle class life you live. Watch your tone ladies and don’t be so convinced you could never be a victim of abuse.

I think it is a mix of financial literacy, self esteem and need to update the laws so that couples can choose the financial regime for their marriage in advance and act based on that knowledge. This is standard in many countries including where I am from and got married. We got married but kept finances separate, I could have given up work and stay at home but didn't because of financial independence. We made the UK our home and now that we are divorcing he's winning the lottery because of the sodding 50/50 rule (I am female, we earn se amount but I owned a property and have more pension) which really doesn't help working mums that have sought financial independence and tempts others to give up work. If the UK had the same approach as above many women would think twice before giving up work. Whilst I had taken financial cadvice before getting married I wish there was advice or some kind of flagging system to protect international couples moving to the UK to warn them about this peculiar system.

Men also come from all different backgrounds and have no more financial literacy than women do but we don't give them a pity party when they make poor choices and wind up in bad financial situations or reliant on a woman for all their needs and wants. Both have a duty as adults to make responsible financial desicions and live within their means.

I completely understand why men increasingly don't want to get married - many many years of news stories of them being screwed over in divorce was obviously going to only lead one way

What you actually mean is that men don’t want the responsibility that comes with a marriage contract and the implications of that should the relationship fail. The court system seeks to return ex-spouses back into the world as single people on as equal a financial keel as possible. It’s not about screwing over either party although in my experience, the person playing catch up who struggles to get good legal advice comes off worst.

Marriage does not offer one way protection. Life shifts and changes constantly. We are all just as likely to suffer a disabling accident or experience a life-limiting diagnosis. Marriage doesn’t just protect women. It protects those who may be in a weaker financial position if the marriage ends - who is in a better position can chop and change on a regular basis. I really don’t understand why this fact is so frequently ignored,

Thank you

Can't, obviously you will know best when to stay or leave as the person in the situation.

But I would say that long term you being financially insecure will impact your kids. They need you to be there when they grow up too, so please do factor in your long term wellbeing.