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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To stop the kids going down to him?

88 replies

Stressymam · 04/12/2022 16:15

My 2 eldest children have weekend visits to their dad every other weekend (unless the children decide to stop home or he has to work).

About a month and half ago my youngest daughter let slip that dad has been stealing. I asked her what he had stolen and she said shopping like what we get. I asked was it food or clothes or something else and she said some was food and some was cleaning stuff and car fresheners. I asked her how did she know he had stolen (I was unsure of when she was referring to him stealing) and she said he gave stuff to her and her older sister and told them to keep quiet and keep walking out of the shop.

A few days later I asked both kids about what they had been asked to carry and take out of the shop and they both said that he does it every time they go down and they go shopping with him. He has even taken trolleys of shopping. (I only have their word on the trolley part)

I decided to ring him and ask him what has been going on. He agreed he had asked the girls to carry things out of the shops for him a few times and he had done it because money was tight. I told him his financial situation was none of my concern or the kid's concern either. I told him not to rope the kids in. (they are 10 and 11 and looking on Internet they can be arrested etc) He agreed he wouldn't do it again with the kids. I said I would keep them home if I found he did it again.

Roll on to today kids come home and say he had them carrying bleach and milk and tissues out of sainsburys down were he lives. Not only that he filled his car with fuel and filled a petrol tank and put it in the footwell where the kids were sat. And then backed out of the petrol station. I couldn't care about the petrol as that is soley on him but yet again he is using the kids, aswell as their 4 year old sister, to steal things.

I am beyond livid. I have explained to them they can be arrested and held as they are 10 and over. I live 2 hours away from where he lives and I would be devastated if I received a phonecall to say they had been arrested with him. I don't want that for them. I want to stop them going down because he clearly isn't listening and I warned him they would stop with me if he did it again with them. He clearly has no care for them or anything that can come of this. I've said the kids I will think about whether they go down again over the next week. I think I should keep them home but I wanted other people's view, opinions and perspective of this situation. Please help because I don't know where to go from here.

Many thanks for reading.

OP posts:
Nappyvalley15 · 04/12/2022 16:17

You are right. Keep the kids at home.

Goinggoinggone1 · 04/12/2022 16:19

Its not even about getting caught. What is he teaching them?! Awful behaviour.

IncompleteSenten · 04/12/2022 16:19

You are doing the right thing.

I suspect that they would be seen by the police as victims rather than criminals but it is so wrong for him to do this that he doesn't deserve to have them. He's using them because they are kids and it's despicable.

Also, he's an idiot if he thinks shops don't know people use their kids in this way.

Thelnebriati · 04/12/2022 16:19

Keep the kids at home.
How do they feel about it? They obviously aren't able to say no - I would have refused but I was bolshy.

Itsabitnotcold · 04/12/2022 16:20

Absolutely keep them home. And have a big chat about why he's not allowed to see them.

User135792468 · 04/12/2022 16:20

Don’t just keep them at home. He can claim you’re refusing contact and that you’re making the stuff up about lying. Contact a family lawyer straight away and go through the courts.

User135792468 · 04/12/2022 16:20

Making stuff up about stealing I meant*

Lkydfju · 04/12/2022 16:23

Yes keep them at home definitely

Velvian · 04/12/2022 16:23

Yanbu. Definitely keep them at home. That is awful. Is their younger sibling living with him all the time?

Thelnebriati · 04/12/2022 16:24

Did he admit doing it in writing?

Legallypinkish · 04/12/2022 16:24

Keep them home.

He will be caught for the petrol. I forgot to pay once and went back about 10 mins later after I remembered. The guy said they give -doodle 15 mins and then report it to the police. His car will be on cctv.

TrentCrimm · 04/12/2022 16:25

Yes that's unacceptable.

The idea of the kids being with him if he was stopped and challenged doesn't bear thinking about.

If he only has them every other weekend, he has ample opportunity to go nick his shopping when they're not with him- he's using them as a front.

U1sce · 04/12/2022 16:27

I would definitely get legal advice about this. I wouldnt want them going either, but if you just pull their access without going through the process Id be worried you'd end up getting in trouble.

Original poster
Stressymam · 04/12/2022 16:37

Thank you to each and every one of you who has replied. It means so much that I am not alone in thinking this is so wrong and I should have the children here.

As for how the girls feel, they feel scared to say no to him because they don't want a rollicking or be told off by him for refusing. I understand how they feel. I get why they wouldn't want to say no to him. But for him to 'ask' that of his children is just mind boggling. He has told them this weekend not to say anything to me because of how I will react.

I figured with the petrol he will be caught eventually but as I said that's on him alone. But again it boils down to the police having to ring me and say oh yeah erm the father of your children has been arrested. The distance isn't the issue I would travel anywhere to collect them if need be.

As for his younger daughter (4 Yr old from his last relationship) she goes every weekend to his house as she lives 10 mins away so easier for him to have more access visits. (whole new argument)

He hasn't admitted to nothing in writing and would not think twice about calling his kids liars and fabricators. He has done it before. I am just so angry. I know the children wouldn't be arrested (hopefully) but I wouldn't like to think of how they would feel seeing their dad carted off and them being held until I can get to them. It would terrify me at their age.

Thank you again. Means alot.

OP posts:
Ilovelurchers · 04/12/2022 16:47

Do the children want to continue going to see him or not?

Original poster
Stressymam · 04/12/2022 16:47

Also just to add regarding visits it's what we have sorted out between us not through a court or anything. So it's not like I can go back to a court and say he is doing this that and the other.

OP posts:
MrsTerryPratchett · 04/12/2022 16:51

Is there a trusted adult they could talk to so that another person knows? A teacher, nurse, friend with a professional job? Anyone who could corroborate if he kicks off.

Original poster
Stressymam · 04/12/2022 16:52

The eldest not so much. She has chosen to stay home alot this year. The youngest will go down more than her sister but generally if they go see nanna or their cousin or have a sleepover. I think she feels guilty aswell sometimes if she says no to going down. I leave it up to them everytime. All I ask is they let me know and I can ring him and they tell him whether they are going or not. I feel if it came from me whenever they say no he would think I'm putti g words in their mouth.

OP posts:
DeliberatelyObtuse · 04/12/2022 16:54

TrentCrimm · 04/12/2022 16:25

Yes that's unacceptable.

The idea of the kids being with him if he was stopped and challenged doesn't bear thinking about.

If he only has them every other weekend, he has ample opportunity to go nick his shopping when they're not with him- he's using them as a front.

I agree

He's using them as a front

MrsTerryPratchett · 04/12/2022 16:57

He's using them as a front because normal people think a decent man wouldn't use his children in this way. He would, because he's not a decent man.

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 04/12/2022 17:03

Have you seen Oliver! It’s often on at Christmas.

your ex is behaving like Fagin

Endwalker · 04/12/2022 17:05

Stressymam · 04/12/2022 16:47

Also just to add regarding visits it's what we have sorted out between us not through a court or anything. So it's not like I can go back to a court and say he is doing this that and the other.

You could get a child arrangement order, it costs around £230, you don't need a solicitor, and can make the application yourself. It will specify who sees the children and when, you could request that he only has supervised contact at a neutral location due to him purposely involving them in criminal activity.

Or you could just not send them and take the chance that he won't pursue it via the court to get contact as it would cost him the £230 if he was making the application.

Original poster
Stressymam · 04/12/2022 17:17

About the child arrangement order, how long will it take to sort and what should I do with the children in the mean time?

How can I prove he is doing what he is doing. Its the kids words against his and last time we went against him without proof my hand was forced with regards to access. He never saw the inside of a court and all charges against him were dropped.

I think this is the thing with the kids not wanting to say no to him. Last time access was stopped that was on police and social services advice and my eldest hated me for it. I dont want to go down that road again if he will get away with it and I have to give him access again. I feel I will let the kids down. I am also trying to keep my personal feelings about him away from the girls hence why I have left it up to them if they go down to see him or not.

OP posts:
Ilovelurchers · 04/12/2022 17:32

Going against the grain here but I would leave it up to the children whether they go and see him or not, shop-lifting notwithstanding.

My dad was no angel, far from it, but I would not have taken kindly to my mom preventing me from seeing him because of that.

The fact that your kids have told you about the shop-lifting, and being asked to help with it, knowing (I assume) what your feelings would be, does imply they don't want to continue the contact with him, but have they said this for sure?

Personally I would explain to them that you are thinking of stopping their visits because of this, and see if they are happy with that, before you take any further action. Realistically, he isn't actually putting them at risk of arrest themselves - the worst that will happen is that they will witness his arrest. While seeing your parent arrested isn't ideal, I would argue it's less distressing than being prevented from seeing a parent you love.

It's hard for you tho and I understand your concern.

Original poster
Stressymam · 04/12/2022 17:37

Yeah I think I will ask them through the week how they would feel. They are old enough to make that decision themselves and have been doing for the last couple of years. I just can't believe he would be so stupid and having been asked to knock it on the head before he gets caught and they have to witness that has clearly fallen on deaf ears. They aren't happy doing it but feel they have no choice. I know it's not abuse or putting their lives in danger but it wouldn't create an ideal situation. I want to do what is right by the girls without looking like some miffed ex trying to get one over on him. I assure you that is not the case.

OP posts: