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AIBU?

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Original poster

To stop the kids going down to him?

88 replies

Stressymam · 04/12/2022 16:15

My 2 eldest children have weekend visits to their dad every other weekend (unless the children decide to stop home or he has to work).

About a month and half ago my youngest daughter let slip that dad has been stealing. I asked her what he had stolen and she said shopping like what we get. I asked was it food or clothes or something else and she said some was food and some was cleaning stuff and car fresheners. I asked her how did she know he had stolen (I was unsure of when she was referring to him stealing) and she said he gave stuff to her and her older sister and told them to keep quiet and keep walking out of the shop.

A few days later I asked both kids about what they had been asked to carry and take out of the shop and they both said that he does it every time they go down and they go shopping with him. He has even taken trolleys of shopping. (I only have their word on the trolley part)

I decided to ring him and ask him what has been going on. He agreed he had asked the girls to carry things out of the shops for him a few times and he had done it because money was tight. I told him his financial situation was none of my concern or the kid's concern either. I told him not to rope the kids in. (they are 10 and 11 and looking on Internet they can be arrested etc) He agreed he wouldn't do it again with the kids. I said I would keep them home if I found he did it again.

Roll on to today kids come home and say he had them carrying bleach and milk and tissues out of sainsburys down were he lives. Not only that he filled his car with fuel and filled a petrol tank and put it in the footwell where the kids were sat. And then backed out of the petrol station. I couldn't care about the petrol as that is soley on him but yet again he is using the kids, aswell as their 4 year old sister, to steal things.

I am beyond livid. I have explained to them they can be arrested and held as they are 10 and over. I live 2 hours away from where he lives and I would be devastated if I received a phonecall to say they had been arrested with him. I don't want that for them. I want to stop them going down because he clearly isn't listening and I warned him they would stop with me if he did it again with them. He clearly has no care for them or anything that can come of this. I've said the kids I will think about whether they go down again over the next week. I think I should keep them home but I wanted other people's view, opinions and perspective of this situation. Please help because I don't know where to go from here.

Many thanks for reading.

OP posts:
Proneu82 · 05/12/2022 16:06

I’m guessing he doesn’t pay maintenance?

what’s his living arrangement

this issue aside, what’s your relationship like with him?

Original poster
Stressymam · 05/12/2022 16:09

No he doesn't pay for the girls. Hasn't in years. He lives in his nan and grandads house. No mortgage or rent to pay. I am civil with him and will converse with him if it is needed with regards to the girls but that is it.

OP posts:
Proneu82 · 05/12/2022 16:09

Stressymam · 04/12/2022 18:10

His financial situation is of his own doing. He delivers Windows and doors to building sites all over the country. His house is paid for and he has an old car. He uses the works fuel card to fill his car up. He has told me and my partner this on numerous occasions. Even offered to fill our car up of I ever took the children down. He doesn't pay maintenance and as I have said previously he only has them every other weekend. Very rare he has them longer and if by the off chance they are it's with his mother and she collects them and drops them back home again. I still get debt letters for him here and we have been apart 9 years. Even the person who lives in my old house has had bailiffs for him. His insurance is at my old address because it makes it cheaper for him. But as I have said his finances are none of mine or the girls concern.

Why doesn’t he pay maintenance?

this will all be cash in hand

he will be fraudulently claiming benefits

Proneu82 · 05/12/2022 16:10

Last time access was stopped that was on police and social services advice

say again??

Original poster
Stressymam · 05/12/2022 16:12

He isn't on benefits. He delivers Windows and doors to building sites as per previously stated. A few years ago there was an incident with him and the girls and I was told to stop access by police and social services. Totally unrelated to this issue. This was years ago.

OP posts:
Proneu82 · 05/12/2022 16:18

Stressymam · 05/12/2022 16:12

He isn't on benefits. He delivers Windows and doors to building sites as per previously stated. A few years ago there was an incident with him and the girls and I was told to stop access by police and social services. Totally unrelated to this issue. This was years ago.

How do you know?

Proneu82 · 05/12/2022 16:19

You were “told” be SS to stop access.

And they didn’t monitor it? check? Didn’t go to the courts?

Proneu82 · 05/12/2022 16:21

Child maintenance - he opened the case in 2015 and had paid a grand total of 145 quid in that time. No idea why he opened it in the first place because he paid religiously before then every week and would help out with uniforms and other things. Going halves at Christmas etc. CMS are useless anyways. I've given up chasing them.

i would wager he stopped paying CMS because he started getting cash in hand.

If you’re so sure he’s paid and HMRC aware of everything, then why don’t you go through CMS?

Original poster
Stressymam · 05/12/2022 16:22

It was under police investigation but as I said that is irrelevant. What they did down where he lives I have no clue. Don't see why I need to know. My case worker and assigned police officer kept me up to date on all information I needed to know. All charges where dropped so didn't need to go to court. He has a works van and a fuel card. He wouldn't get that if he didn't work for a company. No idea what company he works for though.

OP posts:
Original poster
Stressymam · 05/12/2022 16:23

I didn't go through child maintenance because he was paying and then I received a letter to say he had opened a case so I don't see how I could of opened a case that was already open. It wouldn't happen.

OP posts:
Proneu82 · 05/12/2022 16:25

All very confusing. I’ll bow out.

MadameMackenzie · 05/12/2022 16:50

Ilovelurchers · 04/12/2022 17:32

Going against the grain here but I would leave it up to the children whether they go and see him or not, shop-lifting notwithstanding.

My dad was no angel, far from it, but I would not have taken kindly to my mom preventing me from seeing him because of that.

The fact that your kids have told you about the shop-lifting, and being asked to help with it, knowing (I assume) what your feelings would be, does imply they don't want to continue the contact with him, but have they said this for sure?

Personally I would explain to them that you are thinking of stopping their visits because of this, and see if they are happy with that, before you take any further action. Realistically, he isn't actually putting them at risk of arrest themselves - the worst that will happen is that they will witness his arrest. While seeing your parent arrested isn't ideal, I would argue it's less distressing than being prevented from seeing a parent you love.

It's hard for you tho and I understand your concern.

Are you serious???? He is mentally abusing his children and using them as fronts to commit crimes!!!!! Give your head a shake!!

MadameMackenzie · 05/12/2022 16:52

Stressymam · 04/12/2022 18:58

Thanks for the replies. I think I will phone social services in the morning and the non emergency police and go from there. I might mention it to the primary and grammar school. Just so they are aware and obviously if things progress then the schools will need to know. I might see what social services say first though about notifying the schools. I am wondering if I should message him to tell him I know he's been stealing again and he's roped the girls in but then again I might not and just see what comes of social services and the police say if anything. So frustrated with him that he would be that stupid. Thinks very highly of all 3 of his children. Just wish I could get into contact with their sisters mum. I would say she would be too young at 4 to tell her mum what's been going on.

Why on earth do you need to inform the school?!?!?!?

MadameMackenzie · 05/12/2022 16:55

@Proneu82 he will be fraudulently claiming benefits

You've just made that up..... Please don't stereotype people, it helps nothing

MadameMackenzie · 05/12/2022 16:57

Proneu82 · 05/12/2022 16:25

All very confusing. I’ll bow out.

It really isn't confusing, you've just confused yourself by making shit up!

Princessbananahamock · 05/12/2022 17:11

Stressymam · 04/12/2022 17:17

About the child arrangement order, how long will it take to sort and what should I do with the children in the mean time?

How can I prove he is doing what he is doing. Its the kids words against his and last time we went against him without proof my hand was forced with regards to access. He never saw the inside of a court and all charges against him were dropped.

I think this is the thing with the kids not wanting to say no to him. Last time access was stopped that was on police and social services advice and my eldest hated me for it. I dont want to go down that road again if he will get away with it and I have to give him access again. I feel I will let the kids down. I am also trying to keep my personal feelings about him away from the girls hence why I have left it up to them if they go down to see him or not.

You can stop him seeing the kids whenever you want as there is no court order in place.
if he wants to see the kids he can apply.
If he were to be caught with the kids I’m sure social services would be called, safeguarding, as he is committing a criminal act with children present. Then they willl want to talk to you and could suggest that you should have stopped contact. Let’s face it you have no proof and the courts will want proof.

ThinWomansBrain · 05/12/2022 17:21

text/whatsapp that you don't want them to visit/they don't want to visit because of the shoplifting - if he's admitted it on the phone, unlikely to deny it in a text.
You'll build up a written record.

Proneu82 · 05/12/2022 17:39

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Proneu82 · 05/12/2022 17:40

MadameMackenzie · 05/12/2022 16:57

It really isn't confusing, you've just confused yourself by making shit up!

Show quote history

Confusing that SS supposedly told the OP to “stop access”

but it would seem only verbal and never followed up and the OP ignored them.

So yep, a touch confusing

determinedtomakethiswork · 05/12/2022 17:52

Why wouldn't he use his fuel card in the garage then?

ScotlandEuropa · 05/12/2022 17:52

Maybe the odd time I’d let slip but this is happening on a regular occurrence

Um.

Maybe raise your standards..?

junebirthdaygirl · 05/12/2022 17:58

The biggest issue is he is training them to be thieves. Children learn from their parents and this is what they are learning. It's absolutely shocking!! They know it's wrong but it's part of the atmosphere they are growing up in.
I wouldn't let them go and explain to them that you are worried not only that they will be caught but especially how wrong stealing is.

Original poster
Stressymam · 05/12/2022 18:18

You are confusing an old issue from years ago with this situation. There really isn't anything confusing at all. I'm not getting into what happened years ago. I didn't ignore anybody either. I did what I was told.

I had toyed with the idea of messaging him and getting him to trip himself up but then was worried if it would be seen as entrapment type of thing. I don't know what to do with this situation as to whether to or not.

I'm hoping social services will help me where to go from here.

OP posts:
Original poster
Stressymam · 05/12/2022 18:20

ScotlandEuropa · 05/12/2022 17:52

Maybe the odd time I’d let slip but this is happening on a regular occurrence

Um.

Maybe raise your standards..?

I'm unsure of what your referring to here.

OP posts:
KettrickenSmiled · 05/12/2022 18:49

I had toyed with the idea of messaging him and getting him to trip himself up but then was worried if it would be seen as entrapment type of thing. I don't know what to do with this situation as to whether to or not.

Of course it wouldn't be seen as entrapment. You're not an officer of the law.
It is perfectly permissable for a private citizen to message another private citizen, to inform them that as they refuse to comply with your request not to use their children as a front for his shoplifting, that you are withholding his contact with those children as he cannot be trusted around them.

If he responds, effectively owning it - result.
If he doesn't respond - also result, as you will have got what you needed (cessation of contact) AND documented your concerns.