To think MN has a race problem and it’s getting worse

[MovingOutofZone2]

Posters say incredibly offensive, often outright racist things and MN lets them stand as it’s a ‘difference of opinion’ and that’s fine. Other posters complain about this and MN deletes said complaints as they are ‘personal attacks’ and that isn’t fine.

Then we have mods wandering in and going ‘let’s have peace and love’, as though ‘both sides’ need to calm down. No, we need to stop placating racists.

I’m not going to give examples as this will get taken down as a TAAT, but I cannot be the only person to be fed up with all this. MN needs to do something about the racism, race baiting and general cultural ignorance. Unless the site is ONLY meant to cater to white people and, even then, I firmly believe that most posters of any race don’t want to see all that ugliness.

It’s getting to the stage where, as a Black person, I’m steeling myself before I log on. And knowing that half the time I report a comment, I won’t even get a token acknowledgement. This isn’t right. It wasn’t always like this.

Her name is Ngozi, not ‘Ngosi’. You’ll have seen it countless times at this point, make the basic effort to spell it correctly.

The more you ‘dig into’ things that can easily be disproven by a short trip to the Charity Commission website and a look at the charity’s accounts? But, that’s less fun than social media shit stirring, I suppose.

So, two (allegedly) Black (allegedly) women (allegedly) said something on Twitter, therefore Ngozi’s decades of well documented work are discredited? Someone claims (unsubstantiated, unlike Ngozi’s statements about Lady Susan, that many on here are unwilling to believe despite there being witnesses) that Ngozi treated her poorly, therefore it must be so. I see.

Finally, even if Ngozi is a truly horrific person (she’s not, this is easily proven, but let’s go with it for this point), how is that relevant? Is racism only unacceptable when the person experiencing it is ‘nice’ and approved by you? If they’re not ‘nice’, is racism fine?

Are you uncomfortable that the Royal Family changed their surname to Windsor? Are they lying too?

Where to begin....For a start, they chose a name in accordance with the place that they were living in, making an effort to integrate with the British culture, so as not to be 'othered', as you often say. Exactly the opposite of the other example

Grant Shapps better be at the top of your shit list 😁

I’m not sure I understand how she was presenting as something she’s not. Her heritage is undeniably African, and reclaiming African names is not at all uncommon for descendants of enslaved people. So it makes you uncomfortable, that’s fair enough. But can you find room in that discomfort to understand why it is important to other people?

If they’re not ‘nice’, is racism fine?

If the person wasn't 'nice' or 100% trustworthy, it would make many question whether the incident happened in the first place

So, circa 75% of celebrities and members of the Royal Family are untrustworthy and make you ‘uncomfortable’?

Is feeling uncomfortable allowed in your thread or not?

Says the person who is yet to tell me how I am ‘defending the indefensible, showing an evident lack of dignity and integrity’ by saying Ngozi has chosen the name she wishes to be called. Bed yourself in with your discomfort.

Let’s not sidestep that question, it’s a good one. (Also we know there were witnesses to the conversation, and not denial from the other party.)

If they’re not “nice”, if they make you uncomfortable, is any racism they receive acceptable?

As do many many immigrants for the same reason. However, some like one of my best friends, change it back in later generations - to preserve their heritage and crystallise as aspect of their identity.

But what if there’s no record of your ancestors’ name?

So, it’s fine to change your name to fit in with British culture (and doesn’t make you less trustworthy), but not to change it from something British (that does make you less trustworthy).

So, what we’re aiming for here is as much ‘Britishness’ as possible and British = trustworthy? Fascinating.

If they’re not “nice”, if they make you uncomfortable, is any racism they receive acceptable?

Racism is not acceptable. But it would make you question the veracity of their claims i.e. whether the incident took place or not

As stated in the comment from which you lifters the quote, there were witnesses. The incident has not been disputed by anyone who was there, Buckingham Palace, the Royal Family or Lady Susan herself. Mandu Reid was standing right there.

However, as Ngozi isn’t ‘nice’ (because of the unsubstantiated claims of someone on Twitter, but you don’t require substantiation when something confirms your bias) and isn’t ‘trustworthy’ (because she changed her name…in the wrong direction?), it totally didn’t happen.

If you don’t see how you’re the problem, there’s nothing anyone here can say to help you.

As do many many immigrants for the same reason. However, some like one of my best friends, change it back in later generations - to preserve their heritage and crystallise as aspect of their identity.

I appreciate your trying to explain this and I understand what you are saying.

However, it falls apart on cases like these, because, how can someone go to these lengths to very outwardly preserve their heritage and crystallise these aspects or their identity and then on the other hand crucify someone publicly because they made the mistake of believing they were not British (assuming this is what happened because we will never know)

Too well trodden, convoluted and gaslighty.

because she changed her name…in the wrong direction

The direction is relevant because the RF were trying to fit in.

You cannot go to so much effort to demonstrate that you are different, that you don't belong here and then get offended because you feel 'othered'

If you cannot understand this, you are part of the problem too, I'm afraid

The witness statements and investigation should put your mind to rest @unsureatthispoint. If they don't, that's a problem.

I wonder what we call it then when you would believe and value the word of a white woman with a white sounding name, in a cream skirt suit over the word of a British woman of African heritage who chose an African name to reflect that heritage (which given her career is clearly important to her) and wore a leopard print dress and a cardigan?

@unsureatthispoint But not only is she British, she doesn’t know her family’s exact origins as she explained in the conversation and SH still pushed for an answer. When you have an understanding of the slave trade, the phrase “the slave owners didn’t keep records” is very clear.

So, circa 75% of celebrities

Also, a charity worker is not a celebrity. They should be genuine, which usually does not go with the idea of using a name other than the one chosen by their parents.

the 'race problem' on MN and in society is getting worse precisely because of all this shit stirring

This

Unless their new name is more British and chosen to ‘fit in’, apparently? Then it’s genuine and trustworthy, according to you.

Oh! Like Boris Johnson?

@MovingOutofZone2

This is my point, people can't be reasoned with when obvious racism has occurred if they've been polarised into a position where they feel their identity is under threat by admitting it.

The more they're attacked the more they entrench themselves. Something eventually is going to have to shift this from a battle to a discussion but I feel people are going to get more divided and angry before that happens, and I'm pretty sure there's insidious elements that have stirred this up on both sides.

Yeah, cos talking about problems makes them worse. FFS.I 🙄

The race problem is getting worse because people like you are posting utterly bonkers things that could be easily disproven by a quick look at actual documentation (as I stated upthread, all that nonsense about expenses is easily debunked by a look at the charity’s publicly available accounts).

The race baiter is you. The person making the most absurd claims is you. Get help.

I wonder what we call it then when you would believe and value the word of a white woman with a white sounding name, in a cream skirt suit over the word of a British woman of African heritage who chose an African name to reflect that heritage (which given her career is clearly important to her) and wore a leopard print dress and a cardigan?

Nobody should have to believe anything in order to demonstrate that they are not 'racist'. Everyone has the right to be sceptical and ask questions, in particular when one of the parties appears to have benefited enormously from the alleged encounter and the other one lost her 'job'

It has nothing to do with suits or cardigans

@HotChoxs Whilst not disagreeing with your first point, how does someone changing their name to a name from their heritage threaten anyone else’s identity? Or do you mean other things are threatening them?

It makes you 'uncomfortable' when complete strangers change their name? You believe them to be less trustworthy?

You can hand on heart say you've felt that way about Elton John, Michael Cane, Meg Ryan, Diane Keaton, ...? All changed their names.

Audrey Hepburn isn't her birth name. Do you feel differently about her now you know that? Again, hand on heart does that make you uncomfortable and make you feel she was less trustworthy than you did before you knew that?