To think MN has a race problem and it’s getting worse

[MovingOutofZone2]

Posters say incredibly offensive, often outright racist things and MN lets them stand as it’s a ‘difference of opinion’ and that’s fine. Other posters complain about this and MN deletes said complaints as they are ‘personal attacks’ and that isn’t fine.

Then we have mods wandering in and going ‘let’s have peace and love’, as though ‘both sides’ need to calm down. No, we need to stop placating racists.

I’m not going to give examples as this will get taken down as a TAAT, but I cannot be the only person to be fed up with all this. MN needs to do something about the racism, race baiting and general cultural ignorance. Unless the site is ONLY meant to cater to white people and, even then, I firmly believe that most posters of any race don’t want to see all that ugliness.

It’s getting to the stage where, as a Black person, I’m steeling myself before I log on. And knowing that half the time I report a comment, I won’t even get a token acknowledgement. This isn’t right. It wasn’t always like this.

Beautifully put, Moving.

I’m Black (I believe I was very clear about this in the OP) and I think it’s still a major issue. It’s better than it was 50 years ago, as are most aspects of social justice. However, I don’t subscribe to the ‘it’s better than it was before, so we should be satisfied’ school of thought. It can be better still.

I also don’t agree that it’s pointless and tiresome to address any and all racism that I choose to address.

If you haven’t experienced any overt racism in 20 years, then I’m genuinely pleased for you. For lots of us, that hasn’t been the case. If you decide that this isn’t a battle you’re interested in fighting, then I respect that. For lots of us, that isn’t the case either.

Yes but just because people are aware of it and willing to engage doesn't mean that their good intentions are going to lead to a good outcome. There is a saying that too many cooks spoil the broth and there's a point at which it's just a case of diminishing returns.

So true, and laughable that we should be satisfied with the state of affairs as they are today. I wonder if women should also be satisfied with where we are today and not try to close the gender gap?

It’s just telling black/Asian people ‘stay in your box’.

A battle that I'm not willing to continue fighting. There's a difference between that and not being interested. I put myself into some pretty risky situations many years ago.

It's not that I don't think it's a battle worth fighting, I just that while I can see the positive side of it becoming so much more to the fore I'm also concerned with the divisive side of it. I've actually felt far more uncomfortable around white people these last couple of years than previously.

Well thanks for making my point for me. Someone who's experienced overt racism's opinion and fought against it is laughable. Thanks for diminishing my experiences.

Furthermore there's different ways to fight this battle. In my case I continue to have a successful career and good life despite all the barriers put in my way and have recovered from much of the trauma that was experienced earlier in life.

I also have a lot of other battles to fight in this life too apart from racism.

Furthermore there's different ways to fight this battle. In my case I continue to have a successful career and good life despite all the barriers put in my way and have recovered from much of the trauma that was experienced earlier in life.

Same.

I also have a lot of other battles to fight in this life too apart from racism.

Also same. I choose to fight this one, as well.

the trouble is that you just can't take on other points of view.

You are incensed at our audacity in not agreeing with you. You are decrying the ‘lack of nuance’ of people who have written articulate, layered and incisive posts while you’ve just essentially ranted. You’re incapable of engaging, incapable of learning, incapable of growing. This is the problem. You are the problem.

Tell me where I've ranted. And, while you're at it, tell me where I'm incensed. I might be mildly bored by you, but incensed? Not really.

And, of course, the killer - I am incapable of learning. It's always other people who have to learn, isn't it?

And, again, you post like you belong in Animal Farm. Perhaps you'd like to read it?

and where exactly does this come from?
it must be galling that they’re not treated with the reverence you think they deserve.
I truly don't think my views deserve any reverence. None at all. But why do so many people on this thread think that their's do?
as in - 'you don't agree with me, you should be re-educated'.

It’s interesting that you thought that post was about you, personally. However, the post that was directed at you, you ignored as inconvenient. So, again, you post like you belong in 1984, perhaps you’d like to read it?

the trouble is that you just can't take on other points of view.

Please show me where on this thread you’ve taken on another point of view.

Well my opinion on it is that is that it's counterproductive to go about it in this way. Someone said this is "telling black/Asian people ‘stay in your box’." I think the effect this is having is to continues to put us in a box. One in which white people can point out how less privileged we are and bond over it.

Furthermore suggesting we're in a box at all these days when we don't even have a white prime minister makes me wonder what the box is that's being referred to.

I'm sure there are racist ignorant people on here, I personally couldn't give two hoots for them because they're a dying irrelevant breed.

So true @unsureatthispoint . So much race baiting on this thread from insufferably arrogant posters who constantly assert that their opinion is gospel. The same kind of people who can dismiss the lived experience of people like @HotChoxs . And as @HotChoxs said, certain people are only too keen to create division, fanning the flames of resentment and hatred instead of focusing on our communality.

I fundamentally disagree with you on several of those points and have said why, both to you directly and in other comments on this thread. Like I said upthread, you are entitled to your stance, but it’s not one I share.

I also don’t believe that Squeezita was suggesting that minorities are currently in a box by her use of a colloquialism. However, it was her comment, so I’ll leave it for her to clarify, should she choose to.

It’s better than it was 50 years ago

Just thought I'd mention that I don't believe it's even comparable to what it was 40 years ago. A significant portion of the Country was a no go area unless I wanted to get my head kicked in. Getting called a racist name happened almost every time I went out. People used to pull up in cars alongside and shout, it's one of my first memories from when I was about 5 years old walking with my Mother, is a skinhead looking out of a car window at me like he wanted to kill me. People don't bat their eyelids at mixed couples this days & I can't even begin to tell you the horror stories that my parents went through in those days.

I've seen so much change in my lifetime that I look at the way that people mix together now and despite there still being problems I take much happiness in it.

I'm much more concerned about the continual lowering of peoples living standards and the destruction of the middle class. I think this is going to have a far bigger negative net outcome than racism.

It's not indoctrination to expect people to adapt their thinking to try and understand the World and society from another person's perspective

Why 'World' in capital letters?

You can have your expectations, but some people will not change their minds, and you cannot force them to

Thanks for this response @HotChoxs
You say what I would have liked to.

I would say MN seems to have a lot of people suffering from white guilt, I have always found collective guilt over something our ancestors did ridiculous. Should I hate half of myself because half my family are white as the driven snow and then should the other half of myself feel terribly oppressed?

Same. I acknowledge slavery happened and it was abhorrent but I refuse to feel personally guilty about it. I wouldn't expect anyone to ever feel guilt over something they did not personally do - it makes no sense.

@LondonWolf what do you mean “don’t expect POC to do the work”? What “work” should my ds do when people tell him he’s not British (he is) and call him a dog eater and beat him up for spreading covid because he’s a chi*k?

Genuinely curious! :)
(I’ll tell you his strategy if you tell me yours!)

HotChoxs your point of view is interesting as it's more or less the way I see it

Relations had improved and the constant agitation and stoking of flames is damaging and undoing progress. But maybe that's what some want, isn't it?

@unsureatthispoint so to be clear, people saying they’d rather people didn’t make racist comments at them/other people is the problem. What’s not the problem is the people making the racist comments in the first place. Is that right?

Or do you mean that comments like Hussey’s shouldn’t be seen as racist, and it’s complaints about comments like hers that “stoke the flames” as you don’t see it as “serious” enough to be brought up?

Again, a genuine question, not trying to pick holes in what you’re saying.

I agree

I think there's still problems and that everyone has a right to be angry about racism and want to do something about it.

But I'm not sure if that anger has been harnessed in a destructive way. I've felt pretty gaslit by it and I've been pretty dubious of a lot of people's intentions.

It does seem that certain people want to encourage racial infighting. Social media fuels a lot of this. You don't get any likes for making nuanced statements, but deliberately misinterpret statements and deliberately stoke things up and you get 10k.

I did look at those posts, and didn't see racism.
And no, I haven't changed my pov, but then I don't run around calling anyone who disagrees with me a racist. Like you do.
If someone doesn't agree with me, that's their right. I'm not so immature as to demand that everybody shares my views. Like you do.