To think MN has a race problem and it’s getting worse

[MovingOutofZone2]

Posters say incredibly offensive, often outright racist things and MN lets them stand as it’s a ‘difference of opinion’ and that’s fine. Other posters complain about this and MN deletes said complaints as they are ‘personal attacks’ and that isn’t fine.

Then we have mods wandering in and going ‘let’s have peace and love’, as though ‘both sides’ need to calm down. No, we need to stop placating racists.

I’m not going to give examples as this will get taken down as a TAAT, but I cannot be the only person to be fed up with all this. MN needs to do something about the racism, race baiting and general cultural ignorance. Unless the site is ONLY meant to cater to white people and, even then, I firmly believe that most posters of any race don’t want to see all that ugliness.

It’s getting to the stage where, as a Black person, I’m steeling myself before I log on. And knowing that half the time I report a comment, I won’t even get a token acknowledgement. This isn’t right. It wasn’t always like this.

Justine needs to acknowledge the problem and engage all MN staff in racial awareness training including herself. MN needs to specify in the Ts&Cs that racism will not be tolerated which includes microaggressions

I think it's shocking that you are trying to bully the MN team because they don't share your opinions. You are publicly punishing them for 'wrongthink'. It's very telling and you are coming across as incredibly entitled and aggressive

Racists on here from years ago are now batty racist gransnetters

I definitely agree OP. MN definitely has a racism problem.
I called out a posters cultural insensitivity to cultural norms including childhood ear piercing (they said parents to pierce children's ears are child abusers)- that poster reported me for making them feel bad about being called out. MN deleted my posting but not the post I called insensitive.

There is definitely a double standard that is supportive of non Black/POC opinions.

YANBU. And more insidious than the overt racism is the constant deliberate obtuseness, the “oh I really don’t see that as racist” from white posters, even when someone is describing their own lived experience of racism

I’m confused as to how this constitutes bullying.

I would be interested in examples because I've always thought that any racism - perceived or actual - is jumped on straight away on MN. Maybe I'm not reading the right threads.

You don’t think it’s possible for cultural norms be abusive?

Racism I have never considered to be a problem on here. Out and out bullies- definitely. There are a lot of nasty people who just love to come on here and upset people of all races for the fun of it.

Yes sorry

MM obviously was well established to meet Harry in the first place. If she can bag Harry.... she would of done perfectly well without him.

Despite not liking someone there's no need for the constant slander. I mean I wouldn't be following someone I wasn't interested in I would just move on. People seem obsessed with her and the Netflix it isn't even something I would watch. Many here will be then start a thread.

@StrictlyAFemaleFemale - Found the book - no need to reply

I’m confused as to how this constitutes bullying

I've had my fair share of deletions on MN as some discussions become understandably heated. Some I could see the rationale, and others I just thought that MN mods perhaps didn't share my views.

Yes, it was frustrating, but I would never dream of opening a thread in order to harangue the mob, intimidate MN staff and try to reclaim the platform as if it were my own and others' opinions didn't matter. It's outrageous and painful to see actually.

mnchat - while you find it racist, I'm afraid there will always people who object to ear piercing of babies - and the biggie, circumcision - no matter cultural "norms".

You will always find people in the world who object to the oppression of women in certain societies.

And many other examples.

I don't think MN is a racist site per se. Of course there is racism on a site with millions of members but when I've seen it it has been zapped pretty quickly. Then again, I'm probably most likely to be on the fairly benign threads.

Ear piercing and circumcision comes up very regularly - probably monthly - and I think I've said and read everything I ever need to on those subjects now.

@Ivyblu well Bill Gates is divorced. Ach - not serious but she does seem to be trading on the RF who they seem to dislike and criticise at all times - but hey - makes no odds to me - I just instinctively as the mother of a son wish they could be closer and nicer to their families and work things out with less opposition.

Their problem - not mine - but I do think sad to see & one does see it.

@GrinAndVomit no, I do not see the cultural norm of ear piercing as abusive.

Yes, it was frustrating, but I would never dream of opening a thread in order to harangue the mob, intimidate MN staff and try to reclaim the platform as if it were my own and others' opinions didn't matter. It's outrageous and painful to see actually.
Yes to this. If you don't like what's going on on MN, go elsewhere . Some posters seem incapable of viewing disagreement as anything but a personal attack, and just can't handle those who disagree with them.
There are elements in society who would be very happy to see free speech closed down, and several of them seem to have appeared on here

@LindorDoubleChoc the difference was someone called people who pierced children's ears abusers - mn did nothing.

I called the poster culturally insensitive - mn deleted it.

Mn cared more about the white persons offence at being called insensitive and wanted to protect them while disregarding the non white person.

’If you don’t like it here, leave’ is pretty standard racist rhetoric. No, we have as much right to be on MN as you do. If we’re unhappy with elements of it, we’ll fix them.

According to your logic, if you don’t like what’s being said on this thread, you should leave. So, why are you here?

You seem confused as to the nature of free speech. Firstly, qualified freedom of expression, (which is what we have in the U.K., by the way) doesn’t cover hate speech, which is what’s being objected to. It also doesn’t only apply to speech that you like. So, with all due respect, I have every right to post my objections here.

You seem unable to handle this and to want to close down the conversation…which is deeply ironic.

That’s not what I asked. You implied that people should be tactful around the cultural norms of others even if they deem a practice abusive. Is that not correct?

I don’t agree at all. I think freedom of speech is important and mn should err more on the side of non deletion generally.

If we’re unhappy with elements of it, we’ll fix them.

How WILL you fix them? By force?

I agree, I think this is the post that led to misunderstandings of what @GrinAndVomit was trying to say later on. I fundamentally disagree with her here that we’re ‘not able’ to discuss the Rotherham cases et al. The cases have been discussed extensively in the media, in public enquired, in academic papers and in books.

The reason the perpetrators were allowed to get away with it, was not because they were Asian but because the council leaders and the police had patriarchal cultures that viewed other types of crime (insofar as the abuse was regarded as a crime which it wasn’t really - that was part of the problem) as far more important, (particularly burglary and car crime which had government targets).Their attention on the matter tended to focus on the behaviour of the girls rather than that of the abusers. The girls were disdained and not regarded as any kind of priority. There was mix of reasons: blaming the victims, not understanding the issues, not being considered important enough to do anything about, and lack of any joined up coordinated approach. And also just sheer incompetence.

The Casey report concluded that council had a culture of sexist bullying, inadequate scrutiny, cover up and silencing whistleblowers. We know that the police ignored report after report.

So @GrinAndVomit was right that professionals including care workers, social workers and teachers etc repeatedly reported the problem. Including from Angie Heal who actually worked for the police originally. They were shut down, ignored and threatened with the line that it was too sensitive because the protagonists were Asian. But that was a lie. It was because those in power locally simply didn’t think it was important and cba to tackle it. That lie was then perpetuated as defence to inaction when the whole story blew.

How WILL you fix them? By force?
by bullying

You seem confused as to the nature of free speech. Firstly, qualified freedom of expression, (which is what we have in the U.K., by the way) doesn’t cover hate speech, which is what’s being objected to.

I've never ever seen hate speech being allowed to stand on MN. But you seem to think you have the right to go beyond that and dictate to them what opinions should and shouldn't be deleted. And if they dare not comply, you harass them and go to the extent of exposing them publicly until they surrender to you and the pressure of the gang. Disgusting