To think MN has a race problem and it’s getting worse

[MovingOutofZone2]

Posters say incredibly offensive, often outright racist things and MN lets them stand as it’s a ‘difference of opinion’ and that’s fine. Other posters complain about this and MN deletes said complaints as they are ‘personal attacks’ and that isn’t fine.

Then we have mods wandering in and going ‘let’s have peace and love’, as though ‘both sides’ need to calm down. No, we need to stop placating racists.

I’m not going to give examples as this will get taken down as a TAAT, but I cannot be the only person to be fed up with all this. MN needs to do something about the racism, race baiting and general cultural ignorance. Unless the site is ONLY meant to cater to white people and, even then, I firmly believe that most posters of any race don’t want to see all that ugliness.

It’s getting to the stage where, as a Black person, I’m steeling myself before I log on. And knowing that half the time I report a comment, I won’t even get a token acknowledgement. This isn’t right. It wasn’t always like this.

What are you talking about? So-called 'Transphobia' is actually standing up for women's and children's rights, including the right to our own spaces where needed, and children's right not to be medicalised for life.

Homophobia is not something seen often here. Maybe a few people made the point about how hypocritical men's football is having zero professional gay footballers, while promoting LGBTQ+++ rights and yet ignoring women's oppression (while women's football has always had lesbians - no problem). That's not homophobia.

I wonder if people who didn't think there was any kind of discriminatory attitudes on MN or in the UK would feel if they were able to experience the world through other people's eyes who do experience it. Men often dismiss sexism - but they see the world through male eyes.

I experience the world through my eyes and how the world sees me. I can only listen to how other people experience the world and believe them when they say the experiences that have happened to them. And try and reflect on changes I can make to alter those experiences.

I think the increase in racist and xenophobic posts on here is just indicative of how the rise of the far right and Brexit have created a climate where expressing these views is less unacceptable than it used to be.

I don't venture into threads where there's racism more than once, so can't comment on how racism is moderated. It enrages and distresses me in equal measure.

I'm in my 60s, so can remember the days when racist jokes etc were commonplace, including on tv. I grew up in an area where there was a lot of racism, a significant National Front presence and racist graffiti was commonplace. In the early 80s, there was a racially motivated murder of a black teenager barely a mile from my house. All of this disgusted me then, and disgusts me now.

We seem to be going backwards in how people of colour are treated, and it really boils my piss, frankly. So much has been achieved in equalities in my lifetime, I hate the thought that, in some circles, it's as if that never happened.

My thoughts (as someone with mixed heritage) is that I find a lot of people on here very sensitive and ill-equipped to deal with opinions that might not fit with their agenda. Anything these days seems to be put in a box of discrimination (be it racism, sexism, whatever word can be plucked out). People will always have differing views, and the idea of silencing them seems farcical.

😂👏👏👏

Absolutely!

Why not? A woman's forum can discuss issues that impact women can't they?

Stop trying to equate women being pro-female with racism. Females are an oppressed group and have have every right to meet, discuss and try to combat their own oppression away from males.

But here again your focus on racist intent is a classic trap - racist intent isn’t necessarily for an action or view to be racist.

Focusing on intent centres the racist and their feelings rather than those who experience the racism. It gaslights by claiming victims of racism are unreasonable because the racist didn’t mean to be racist. They were just ‘giving their opinion’ which somehow insulates them from being racist. Suddenly again it is people of colour being judged for having the temerity to call out racism.

And the cherry on top is your ‘both sidesism’ at the end. Again, classic apologism.

I think there two extremes on MN there are the people at one extreme who think any kind of disagreement with any person of colour must be racist - you're not a fan of Meghan Markel, well you must be racist. It pisses me off when the term is thrown around like that when racism is a real issue and not something to use just to win your argument or to shut other people down.

Then there are the people who at the other end don't see the issue with Ngozi Fulani being 'forced' to 'admit' that her family aren't originally from Britain at an event where she should be being celebrated for her contribution to helping black women and girls facing violence. And the teacher who didn't know if it was worth tackling anti semitism in her class. And the people who couldn't understand why having a white person come in on a day celebrating African culture and teach the children (from a variety of backgrounds, but quite a number of black students I believe) African drumming was a problem - and some even thought it was racist to say it should be someone black not white.

I disagree that because mumsnet has a large number of gender critical members that that means it's more homophobic/racist etc. The vast majority of gc woman just want to protect women's spaces from biological males and don't agree with giving hormones to children that could impact the rest of their life. It's not about hating on anyone, as long as they are respectful that people can't change sex and that gender and sex are two completely different things. Being GC IMO is about protecting women and children. But that discussion, just like the ones around race, homophobia etc all need to happen to some extent at least, because otherwise how does challenge those views whichever side they are on?

There has to be a certain level of free speech and then a point where it is shut down because it is unacceptable - but the difficulty sometimes is pinpointing exactly where that line is. People are generally pretty quick to report offensive posts though and I think they do get pulled - but there needs to be the opportunity to challenge each others views and I'm sure not everyone will agree where the line should be.

These comments will receive

I stopped using Mumsnet shortly after there was an entire thread of outrage because a local Joules (or a similar brand beloved of Mumsnetters) had the audacity to put an LGBTQ flag in a shop window.

You'd have thought it was a swastika from the comments.

It really isn't. And the line between transphobia and standing up for women's rights is actually very simple.

Acknowledging that there is a disconnect between the specific issue of single sex spaces and the infringement trans rights could have on that is not transphobic.

Literally ANYTHING beyond that is transphobic and is seen in full force on those boards. Denying trans people exist, "debating trans ideology", labelling trans people as fetishists and perverts, rejection of things like preferred pronouns that trans people use day to day in order to feel comfortable in their life, is transphobia.

Whether you like it or not, are comfortable being transphobic or not, or whatever, it doesn't mean it's not transphobic rhetoric.

You think this country has a problem? You want to see how they treat people from Africa in other parts of the world. Perhaps people should start to highlight that!

As I posted on another thread:

I think that the MN has become known for its discussions on trans issues. Which are important and necessary. I also think that SOME of the people who have been attracted here to discuss trans people are also people who have an issue with minority groups. I use the word SOME in there as clearly there are people who want to discuss trans issues who don't have an issue with minority groups and just want to discuss trans issues.

So these new users who have views on other minority groups are going to take part in a discussion about other minority groups.

Is it because people are debating and a certain race of people aren't allowed to do this unless they are agreeing with you? Obviously if they don't agree, they get branded racist.

So that excuses racism in the UK and on these boards? Would you say the same about misogyny or disablism? That because other parts of the world treat women or disabled people more badly, then that means all is A-OK in the UK and we can sit back and do nothing to improve things?

I haven’t seen outright racism but that is probably because the posts are taken down before I get there - just because I haven’t seen it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.

but I have seen a lot of is the refusal and dispute of issues being racially motivated. An example might be a thread about treatment of someone being different because of their race - then posters come on refuting it, stating it’s ABSOLUTELY NOT TO DO WITH RACE and the OP gets told that their experience and interpretation of the treatment is WRONG.

Whilst I’m sure sometimes it’s not race related, I bet it is most or majority of the time!

For people to be told they are wrong on the assessment of their own lived experience just seems so, ridiculous!

First class whataboutery there

The fact that a thread about racism has turned into a thread about trans issues does seem to support the OP's point.

To summarise:

1. Yes, there is racism on MN.
2. No there isn't, people are just too sensitive these days/ it's worse elsewhere/ I have my own definition of racism which exonerates myself.

Have I missed anything?

I was listening to an interview on Meghan Murphy’s podcast with Sal Grover.
She stated that she has a huge number of adolescent males attempting to access her female only app with the intention of posting provocative comments etc.
I think that goes on a fair amount here too.

Well said. 🙂