To disagree with social services?

Lilyfrilly · 2022-12-01T13:37:25+00:00

I’m hoping someone here works in social services or just has some knowledge and advice. name changed for this post. my 4 children have been on a child protection plan since February this year. We go to core group meetings every 6 weeks with the professionals, to discuss how the plan is going and if we’ve done what has been asked of us. we’ve gone from having a bad relationship with some of the professionals, to having a good one and working well together on the plan. at each meeting, all the professionals are asked to give us marks out of 10. It’s gone from 3/4 to 7/8- the last few meetings have been really positive. Social worker visits unannounced at least once a week, and is always satisfied. our next conference is in January. This is where the decision will be made on if we need to stay on child protection or can go down to child in need plans. there is nothing more I can do than what I have done. Things are going well. however, my social worker has said not to get my hopes up as although things are going well now, they have concerns things might not go so well again in the future. bit surely in that case, we would just go back up to child protection again. If that is the reason they use to keep us on the CP plan, then they could always say that reason since no one can see into the future. So my question is…. If at the next conference, it’s decided we need to stay on child protection, would I be wise to just accept that or can I challenge it? I can’t see how we would still meet the threshold but I’m anxious now. i feel like I can’t do any more than what I have. I’ve also heard CP plans can’t last more than 2 years. But the thought of another year of this…

OhmygodDont · 01/12/2022 13:39

It would depends on why you where placed on it and what the improvements have been and how you would be able to slip back.

Perfect28 · 01/12/2022 13:41

It very much depends what they are worried about doesn't it, and you've not given any indication of what that might be. If you can't do any more and they are still concerned, that sounds concerning.

JJJSchmidt · 01/12/2022 13:42

Their worry is likely to be the impact on the children if things get worse again. Certain types of abuse such as neglect tend to get worse each time, and also they will want to reduce the chance of the children experiencing these things more than once. I'd ask for a Frank conversation about their worries in regards to relapse and what work they can offer you around reducing the chances of this for both the short and long term.

SleepingStandingUp · 01/12/2022 13:43

Your SW has to make a judgement on why you went onto it in the first place.

How easy would it be to Laide back to where yo u were when they got involved? Would the lack of scrutiny make it easier for you to regress?

Ultimately, downgrading you, letting things get worse then trying to put you back up to CPP isn't fair on your kids. They shouldn't have to get to a point of experiencing abuse again before someone acts. SS are helping it protect them from that.

Original poster

Lilyfrilly · 01/12/2022 13:45

I was just thinking though that if we do get moved down onto child in need plans, we still have the same social worker, we still have the same professionals in our lives, and should anything change, we can go back on to child protection? It just seems like keeping us ok CP just incase things go wrong, is pointless?

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ChocChipOwl · 01/12/2022 13:48

I think the crux here is what they are on the plan for in the first place

OhmygodDont · 01/12/2022 13:48

I mean the attitude of if anything happens they can move us back up and seems pointless to keep us here might have something to do with it.

You seem sure you cannot possibly do any better than you are but don’t sound convincing that you don’t think you won’t slip back even on here.

Flowerfairy101 · 01/12/2022 13:50

Often they want to see sustained changes so depending on what the CP plan was for, they might just want you to demonstrate you'll be able to maintain the changes you've made to improve things.

Original poster

Lilyfrilly · 01/12/2022 13:51

OhmygodDont · 01/12/2022 13:48

I mean the attitude of if anything happens they can move us back up and seems pointless to keep us here might have something to do with it.

You seem sure you cannot possibly do any better than you are but don’t sound convincing that you don’t think you won’t slip back even on here.

Sorry, you’re right.
I haven’t worded that at all well. I think it’s because I feel like We’ve turned life around as it should have always been for our children. And I feel very confident that we don’t need CP anymore. So I’m saying ‘if things go wrong’ and sounding blasé about it. But it’s because I don’t believe it will.

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ditalini · 01/12/2022 13:53

Because if you need to go back up to CPP then it means your children have suffered and their job is to prevent that.

They will need to be as sure as they can (as you've said, no-one can see into the future, but them not being put in a position where they need to be on a CPP isn't a huge ask of you from your children's point of view) and it wouldn't be fair on your children to downgrade that support if they think there's a reasonable chance you might backslide.

ditalini · 01/12/2022 13:54

Ok, well if you do say anything I'd strongly advise you to think about the ways you can demonstrate to them that you're not going to backslide, and not go in saying "but you can always put us back on CPP" because that won't look great.

negomi90 · 01/12/2022 13:55

Child in need plans are voluntary and less funded and intense. Going from child in need to child protection is hard. If things start to slip they'd have to get really bad again before they could ramp up to child protection. Its not as easy as, oops slipping, back to child protection plan.
Also there is a lot of evidence that many families are at their most vulnerable when safeguarding is downgraded - ie after step down from child protection to child in need or from child in need to no social worker.
If the plan is working, then it makes sense to continue it longer to ensure good habits are more ingrained and not take it away to soon.

Original poster

Lilyfrilly · 01/12/2022 13:55

ditalini · 01/12/2022 13:54

Ok, well if you do say anything I'd strongly advise you to think about the ways you can demonstrate to them that you're not going to backslide, and not go in saying "but you can always put us back on CPP" because that won't look great.

Thank you, yes I realised this when another Pp said it above. It wouldn’t sound good at all.

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JustAnotherHappyFatty · 01/12/2022 13:56

Well it depends what you did to warrant social services involvement?
It doesn't matter at this point how confident you are that you don't need CP anymore, the fact is you didn't parent your children sufficiently previously so whatever hoops you now have to jump through to prove yourself to social services are on you.
Do as they ask, listen to them and don't throw a strop just because you have decided you are now parent of the year.

Claireshh · 01/12/2022 13:56

It’s not pointless. You are doing great and i’m sure your children are too. Don’t see it as a negative. You and your children are being given support. I know it must be intrusive but another 12 months of meetings would give your family even chance of family life continuing to be good. That’s a good thing for you and your children. X

caramac04 · 01/12/2022 13:56

Well you’re only scoring 7/8 and I would think that’s not really good enough. You may be working really hard to get things right but tbh a 7 leaves a lot of scope for improvement. You say you can do no more than what you are but perhaps the sw thinks you can and should.
ultimately the sw has to put the needs of dc above all else and you need to be seen to be meeting them.
I would ask how can you improve from a 7 to a 9 to show you are being proactive. You might find you can do this without too much additional effort as you have already massively improved.

Original poster

Lilyfrilly · 01/12/2022 13:57

negomi90 · 01/12/2022 13:55

Child in need plans are voluntary and less funded and intense. Going from child in need to child protection is hard. If things start to slip they'd have to get really bad again before they could ramp up to child protection. Its not as easy as, oops slipping, back to child protection plan.
Also there is a lot of evidence that many families are at their most vulnerable when safeguarding is downgraded - ie after step down from child protection to child in need or from child in need to no social worker.
If the plan is working, then it makes sense to continue it longer to ensure good habits are more ingrained and not take it away to soon.

they were on child in need plans from the end of 2019 until feb this year when they went up to CP. so yes I see what you mean.

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Sindonym · 01/12/2022 13:59

The social workers are interested in minimising risk. They may feel you are not realistic about the risks of slipping again. It requires a lot of reflection to understand why things got so bad and your role in that. Honestly think about welcoming the additional involvement - especially now you have good relationships with them - it will protect your children.

Original poster

Lilyfrilly · 01/12/2022 14:00

JustAnotherHappyFatty · 01/12/2022 13:56

Well it depends what you did to warrant social services involvement?
It doesn't matter at this point how confident you are that you don't need CP anymore, the fact is you didn't parent your children sufficiently previously so whatever hoops you now have to jump through to prove yourself to social services are on you.
Do as they ask, listen to them and don't throw a strop just because you have decided you are now parent of the year.

I’m far from parent of the year. Clearly. I have never once disputed the fact they needed to be ok child protection. This would be the first time I would ever challenge it - if I do. By the advice so far, I think it would be best if I don’t and just accept it.

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OhmygodDont · 01/12/2022 14:01

So the child in need plan didn’t work from 2019 and things continued to get worse and worse until feb 2022 they upped the level and you now think in one year you’ve done what you couldn’t since 2019 till now…

I can understand the reluctance at the end of the day they just want what’s best for the children. Smile, listen take their advice j wouldn’t start fighting against a plan that’s currently working. Prove it continues to work.

frozengoose · 01/12/2022 14:01

It may just be a bit soon.
The professionals may be looking for the changes to be more established and bedded in, particularly if the issues where chronic and long term before the CP kicked in.
Keep going and you'll get stepped down in time.

RodiganReed · 01/12/2022 14:01

If some of the changes you've made have been relatively recent often children's services will want some evidence that you're able to sustain them before stepping down, which will off just mean one extra conference. It sounds like this may be what the social worker is recommending but of course its the Chair's decision ultimately. It will be interesting to see what the other professionals will say, hopefully you can all have a constructive discussion about it and reach a consensus.

Either way it sounds like you're doing great, congratulations.

Original poster

Lilyfrilly · 01/12/2022 14:02

caramac04 · 01/12/2022 13:56

Well you’re only scoring 7/8 and I would think that’s not really good enough. You may be working really hard to get things right but tbh a 7 leaves a lot of scope for improvement. You say you can do no more than what you are but perhaps the sw thinks you can and should.
ultimately the sw has to put the needs of dc above all else and you need to be seen to be meeting them.
I would ask how can you improve from a 7 to a 9 to show you are being proactive. You might find you can do this without too much additional effort as you have already massively improved.

Yes, all they’ve said with the markings is rang they don’t usually do 10, so a 9 would be great.

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MuckyPlucky · 01/12/2022 14:02

Your children were on Child in Need plans for 3 years, and then have spent a year on a CPP. So despite 3 years of professionals support via the CiN plans things still slid to the very serious point of requiring a CPP.

You can see the logic in them wishing the children to remain under CPP.

tearsandtiaras · 01/12/2022 14:02

What are they worried/ concerned about?