The Lady Hussey racism thing

[Tiiiiiiiiiiired]

I am really conflicted about this.

If went to live in Japan (I did live there for 3 years several years ago) I would be expected to be asked about where I'm from because I don't look Japanese (and in fact I was asked many times! I didn't mind at all, it was my choice to be in Japan and I knew I didn't look japanese). If I chose to stay in that country and have children, I'd expect my children would be asked the same, and their children and that although they would be Japanese by birth, I would hope they would be happy to talk about their heritage and where they are from and not mind being asked why they don't look Japanese and what the history is. I wouldnt think it racist and wouldn't want such questions to be stopped because we only learn from others, and about others, by talking and feeling safe to ask questions.

So why in the UK does everyone have to be sooo careful with what they say? This woman has a non English name, was wearing some non western clothing, as was asked about her heritage. Why is this abuse?

We need to stop being so sensitive and allow dialogue.

An article in the Times today describes Lady Hussey as someone known by the palace as a safe pair of hands and skilled as any diplomat. Also sixty years by the Queen's side (the Queen being anything but racist) would suggest that Hussey would not be racist either. Reading the script of the actual dialogue, it does sound shocking and crass, and not something that anybody who was being careful would say. So I think there is a realistic possibility that this lady, knowing in herself that she was not racist, was being outgoing and friendly in her own way, and making, possibly overenthusiastic enquiries in an effort to connect, which backfired badly. If this is correct, she was not being careful in her choice of words precisely because she was confident about her lack of racism.

The implication being BAME people aren’t proud of their heritage? Nice.

I’m very proud of my heritage, but that doesn’t mean I want to satisfy people’s casual, relentless curiosity about it. It may be the first time you are asking me, but it’s the thousandth time I have been asked and it’s boring and offensive to be asked where I’m really from.

But the woman involved was British. She just happened to be black.

And as a white woman I can honestly say having been asked where I'm from numerous times over my many decades 'Cumbria, which is near the Lake District ' has always sufficed as an answer. I've never been probed.for my family history going back generations and I refuse to believe that somebody working with the public such as Hussey does is completely unaware of social expectations around this issue.

Some black people may nor have an issue with being asked or care, but many do including many staff members who will work for her but cant speak out due to the facts they have to sign an NDA...... And she'll be fully aware of that.

I think I’m somewhere in the middle of this argument.
I don’t think it’s racism, I think she’s a rude conversationalist.
Any question asked again and again is just rude!
she didn’t say anything bad about her heritage or where she was from, or anything bad about black people. Which would be racism.
But she was rude.
I think this sort of debate takes away from the real issues to be honest, that racism DOES still exist, I’ve seen people be racist and it’s awful.
this debate plays into the right wing that ‘everything is racist these days and everyone is so woke’ so people are less likely to engage.

I am white and from Africa. People ask me where I am from all the time.... because I have an accent. That often opens a conversation to chat about my country, why I moved here etc.

That is 100% different to what happened here. Ngozi is British. She's from Hackney and has the accent to prove it. The event was, I believe, focused on violence against women and girls and Ms Fulani was there because her charity supports women of Caribbean and African descent who are suffering or victims of abuse. A question about how their heritage might impact the abuse they suffer or their ability to seek help would have been one thing. Repeated questions about where she's from were offensive and rude.

Although I personally think the original move of her hair to see the name badge was almost more shocking than the questioning.

The whole exchange was awful. Firstly Hussey came up and moved Fulani's hair to read her name badge. The implication that you can't possibly be black and British makes me really cross. My mum is 83 and comes from a white working class background and she would never speak to anyone like that or touch their hair. Hussey is ridiculously well-connected and privileged and has been with the royal family for most of her life- she should know very well how to talk to anyone without causing offence. Hussey clearly just thought she was so well-connected that it would be overlooked and she could say what she bloody well liked. Well, she can't.

To note, it’s not a “script of the actual dialogue….”

Eh, why does a British person need to give their ancestry? No one has to justify their existence or their Britishness. She’s from Hackney, that answers the question.

I wouldn’t say “I’m British born and bred, but my ancestors came from X in 19XX” – although they did. And no one would pursue me on not adding that information, because I’m white. Black people don’t have to give their family history to justify their existence.

why aren't we doing that to white people

I don't know though, if someone (white) with an obviously Liverpool accent said they were from Devon, how would you react? I think I'd think oh that's where they live now, but think they are "from" Liverpool. I'd assume their accent told me where they were "from".

Let me guess you are white mid 40s woman telling others what racism is ? Okkkkk
it was racism , she insisted , she has no right to even ask her a second time . She is racist just as Prince Philip was just as most of the older members of the monarchy are . Being old is no excuse to be a vile racist ! Not anymore

I thought it was a fuss over nothing when I first heard; then I read the transcript. Frankly, the woman was being incredibly rude and if this was someone who worked for me or represented an organisation I was part of, I’d want them gone as well.

Whilst the race issue here is obvious, the thing people seem to be ignoring is the fact that it’s very impolite and rather entitled to grill someone over and over in that depth when they’ve politely tried to close the subject.

Discussions around wokeness and political correctness only happen because people have forgotten their manners.

Although I agree that on occasion people are too easily offended, the actual line of questioning would have left me feeling highly uncomfortable and I am not easily offended at all being a bit of an oldie.

However, as soon as I heard of this situation, it immediately reminded me of the Duchess of Sussex's claim that someone in the palace asked her about the possible skin colour of their child.

It all sounds very similar and makes one wonder if this is a normal thought process at the palace.

I wouldn’t say “I’m British born and bred, but my ancestors came from X in 19XX” – although they did. And no one would pursue me on not adding that information, because I’m white

you might not but some white people would. They might say "but my mum is German" or "my parents are Irish". But you are right nobody would pursue you (unless you had a foreign name I guess).

Is her accent not from Hackney then?

Also, I’m pretty well travelled and if I think someone is from a place, I like to chat about it.
so if someone has a French accent, an Indian accent, they’re 2 of my fave countries and I love to chat about where they’re from.

When I worked overseas (Africa and Asia) , I was constantly asked where I was from and even had people correcting me once I told them because they were 'sure' I was from somewhere else either because of my name, accent, colouring or because of my colleague's nationalities.
It isn't a peculiarly English trait for these type of questions to be posed repeatedly. But it is always bad-mannered to persist.

I really feel for Lady H

and I hope that CCTV footage shows that the exchange was a minute or two at most (not the 15 mins claimed) and that you could see both women chatting and laughing etc

When asked where she was from she literally said "Hackney".

Literally the only reason the royal pushed on was because she didn't understand how someone who looks a bit foreign could be from inner London. If a white person had answered Hackney do you think she would have continually badgered her?

No, of fucking course not, is the answer.

Exactly. It persistent and aggressive. She was obviously determined to get the poor woman to say she’s “from” somewhere other than Britain. Being born here wasn’t enough.
Why is it racist? Because nobody does that to a white person. If a white person said they were from Hackney that would be accepted as the answer.
This has been always been used by racists to make people feel they’re not really British if they’re black, even if they were born here.

If went to live in Japan (I did live there for 3 years several years ago) I would be expected to be asked about where I'm from because I don't look Japanese

But is hardly unusual for a black woman to be British is it?

It's that SH didn't seem to believe her.

The difference is, as others have said, that Lady Hussey seemed to think that it was more important to establish where her guest was REALLY from, dismissing the fact that she is British, than to engage with her in a conversation of equals.

If she had chosen to compliment her on her dress and ask whether it was reflective of her heritage, that would be far different.

Ideally, given the event, she would have asked about her role in the DV charity sector first, since that was what she was actually there for.

It's really not that difficult to make polite and welcoming conversation with someone. The palace gets lots of information in advance about attendees to help their hosts to select suitable questions and topics for discussion.

Black and Asian people have been here a LOT longer than since the 1950s!!

I get asked all the time where I am from. I live in Ireland and I am from the Uk (actually, Hackney). But my grandparents come from Eastern Europe - I would be perfectly happy to tell you my fascinating (to me, probably not to you) family history.

I am laughing at this because growing up in Hackney there were very few 'native' white British people. Everyone was either Jewish or a colourful mix of races and ethnicities. (it might have changed recently).

But I understand that someone who is always being asked this question and, more importantly, in addition expereincing other forms of racism might be fed up with it.

Being Jewish, I was and am lucky not to experience on a personal level too much antisemitism, my brothers and husband (who wear kippas) get/got that a lot more.

She was basically told she was lying about where she was from because the woman was looking at someone black and refusing to accept that she was born in Britain.

And actually, I think this is the key to the whole situation. From Ngozi's perspective, her blackness in a white country is a standout feature, and her experiences are seen through the lens of being in that minority. Which is entirely valid. But it doesn't follow that non-black people see everything through the same lens - surely from Lady Susan's white majority perspective, the distinguished feature of Ngozi was not her blackness but her African dress? The black lady next to her who was dressed in British clothing wasn't given the same interrogation.

I dunno, I've never met any of these people. Maybe she is just a massive racist.

I agree with this.

It certainly read like she thought Ngozi was being stupid and not understanding the question, so repeatedly pressed her until she traced far enough back in the family tree to find out where she was "from". She should have stopped after being told "I'm British".

I understand OP's point about not being surprised about being asked a question in somewhere like Japan, as it is not a particularly diverse country.

The UK is clearly a very diverse nation though. I work in a very multicultural office with people of British, European, Asian and Caribbean descent. Some born here, some emigrated here themselves. I only know where someone is "from" because I collate the HR records and have to do ID checks when someone starts and their passport shows place of birth.

I have never, ever, asked any of my colleagues where their "family" comes from, let alone them, and wouldn't dream of it!