Kier starmer! He hates strivers!

[Bucketheadbucketbum]

He wants to introduce a policy to put up the cost of school fees 10 to 15%. This is a tax on hard-working parents! We slave away cutting cots everywhere living hand to mouth to try and improve our childrens future . Live in an average house average area 1 shit car no holidays work like a dog to get our kids through. We are easing the burden on the state system by choosing independent schools. We're not sending them to Eton paid by our trust fund! Why does he want to punish strivers! Tax the energy companies! So disappointed. We need a new political party. What's the point in trying to better your future.

@JassyRadlett

That ‘if’ in the purple font is doing a lot of heavy lifting.

Of course. Their nursery was attached to a large independent girls boarding school. We turned down the offer of a scholarship at age five because the state primary was better.
There are some truly rubbish Independent schools out there. They still offer elitism though.
There are special schools that fill a gap that closure of state special schools on the promise of better education in mainstream (that then wasn’t funded properly and which fail many children who would thrive in special schools).
There are reasonable ex grammars and schools that are perceived as successful and seen as good because they select on intake. They don’t deal with the large classes and wide spread of abilities in most state schools.
State schools aren’t heterogeneous either. Some are very, very good. Some less so.

The main difference in outcomes for children is parents. Parents committed to providing well for their children and who value education - whether that be state or independent. Parents who go without to provide as best they can for their children. Who work three jobs to cover costs whether that be the gas bills and Brownies subs or school fees and polo ponies. Parents who are engaged and interested and who don’t leave everything to the school. Parents who spend time helping their children learn from the cot onwards. Who ensure they are prepared for school.

What remains unfair is the nurse, receptionist or shop manager who works extra to pay for her children’s football boots but then pays more tax that is used to subsidise independent education through charitable tax relief, teacher training, buildings grants, VAT relief and many other ways. If you can afford the luxury of buying the advantages of private education then you can afford to pay the tax instead of the nurse on overtime.

jgw1
The 90,000 number is a figure made up by the independent schools council, who repeatedly refuse to engage with how they came to that figure.

Repeatedly refused to engage??

They commissioned a review in 2018 - by Baines Cutler Solutions and KPMG - link in this article;

conservativehome.com/2022/07/15/georgia-l-gilholy-levelling-down-why-attacking-private-schools-wont-save-state-education/

9) The methodology we have used to calculate pupil drop-off has been based on a pilot study of 21 schools, of differing sizes, types and geographies. For each school we have calculated the likely Net VAT Impact Rate, then used data provided by each school’s head and bursar stating how they might react in fee/pricing terms, before using that school’s detailed parental earnings data (based on separate studies we have carried out for each school over the last two years) to determine how each school’s parents might react. As far as we are aware this study is the only detailed project which has looked at the potential impact of VAT-on-fees and it is the only one to use data from real schools and parents.

10) The results from the pilot schools have then been grossed back up to a national level using data drawn from our 2018 Independent Schools’ Benchmarking Survey. We have conducted this survey annually for 23 years and, with coverage being over 75% of the sector, this allows us to carry out the “grossing up” in a representative way.

@CaronPoivre 👏👏👏

I really do not believe that this will raise any money. I'm sure there are thousands of parents who will pull their children out of private schools and either send them to state schools thus costing the state more money or home schooling (as I would probably do) and loosing tax on my earnings.
Catchments around the best state schools would shrink even further.
I think this is an ideological policy.

If it were an ideological policy @3WildOnes - which side of the fence do you fall - do you think the taxpayer should lose out to subsidise the minority or do you think that these services should be chrged at the standard rate?

If it is ideological, are you on the side of the 7% or the 93%?

Keir is pretty much a centrist. I think that rightly or wrongly, it's been gauged as being something that would be a popular policy.

@Isitsixoclockalready
The polling I saw said only 10% of the public think the current situation shoudl continue - the rest are split as to whether to scrap VAT or make independent schools work harder to justify charitable status.

Starmer's position is 4x as popular as Sunak's on this issue.

I think Starmer has decided that if the Tories want culture wars: bring it on.

Wouldn't it be great if more politicans had ideological policies, rather than just blowing with whichever way the interest group or Russian pays them the most to go.

Not really if it isn’t practical or will do more harm than good. These things should trump ideology every time

I think you might have missed the last 12 years.

What the hell do you think you’re doing using evidence to back up your claims? In 2022 you know! You’ll be hurting someone’s feelings showing such cold information to undermine a persons made up, if heartfelt stance - Shame on you😂😂😂

what makes you say that?

Policy making by monied self interest lobby group with opaque funding and Russians has worked tremendously well for the last 12 years.

Completely agree with him!

‘I really do not believe that this will raise any money‘

absolutely not the point though, is it?
should businesses who are not charities be claiming charity status to avoid tax?
no. They shouldn’t. End of.

Anyway, there’s absolutely no need for these businesses to pass extra costs into their customers.
all this bleating about children having to leave their private school and , oh the horror!, attend a state school can be avoided if these amazing, nurturing private schools treat their families with a little compassion.

I also don’t believe for a second that some one paying £18/20k per year PER child for private schooling are suddenly going to have to kill their kids out of school because they can’t afford another £150 a month

Liz Truss and Kwasi Kwartang were a fabulous example of how the conservatives are amazing for the economy, and how unidealistic they are.

On balance I prefer Starmer idea.

I also don’t believe for a second that some one paying £18/20k per year PER child for private schooling are suddenly going to have to kill their kids out of school because they can’t afford another £150 a month

I hope they don't! Having to be educated with the riff raff though is a fate worse than death and one they will strive harder to avoid.

Who is saying either is right, Both sides. Of the house make shocking decisions

Just read that Keir Starmer's wife was privately educated as well (according to the Mail) - there's a surprise.

One of the things about independent schools having charitable status is that all of the teaching, board and premises costs are classed as "expenditure on charitable activities"
So, the teaching of pupils paying full fees is still a charitable activity.

Because it is a registered charity, all of Eton's annual expenditure on teaching, board and premises (which was £74million for 2020/21) qualifies as "charitable activities"; this despite financial assistance only representing about 13% of its fee income.

In terms of pupil numbers, 260 pupils received some level of financial assistance, which is about 19% of their pupils but of those 260 only 90 pupils (which is less than 7%) have their fees fully paid.

Eton doesn't publish information on qualifying income levels for financial assistance.

Eton actually made a loss on its charitable activities but it has £450million in endowments and so on, and it made a £90million gain on its investments, so it now has total assets of over half a £billion.

Brighton College (recently lauded for giving 20 funded places to Ukranian students) has a similar level of income but level of financial assistance is under 8.5% of its fee income.

Brighton College suggests that you can earn up to around £75,000 and still qualify for financial assistance - day pupils only. (Presumably, £75k is what Brighton College refers to as a "moderate income")
They do offer 20 fully funded day places for sixth form.

However to put that into perspective, 20 free places is £188k and Brighton College made a £7m profit surplus in 2020/21. And because it is a registered charity, it is exempt from corporation tax.
It also made a further £2m gain on its investments.

‘I hope they don't! Having to be educated with the riff raff though is a fate worse than death and one they will strive harder to avoid.’

Thisenpoor children.
I went on an independent school visit,
work related, and asked for directions from
a groundsman who told me to go past the tennis courts, cricket field, paddock and ZOO then bear left to the offices… the zoo. FFS.

I can imagine why posh parents are panicking because our local school has some therapy animals and rabbits, but no paddock or zoo… and everyone knows a well rounded secondary education involves riding ponies and zoology…

I also don’t believe for a second that some one paying £18/20k per year PER child for private schooling are suddenly going to have to kill their kids out of school because they can’t afford another £150 a month

Isn’t 20% of 18K £300 a month?

I wouldn’t pull my year 9 out. I’d wait till year 11, then move him to state when lots of his friends leave and others join, to avoid disruption. So I wouldn’t move him immediately, but I would do it.

If I had a 3 year old, I’d scrap the idea and not join the private school. If I had a junior school child, I’d pay till year 6, then move him to state, when lots of children move to different schools and friendships change.

It’s not just about the extra £300. Private schools are good, but not perfect. We still get bullying, some crap teachers, poor grades and don’t get picked for the footy team. There is a point where you think “nah, it’s not worth that much money”.

My breaking point is18K. It went from 16–18k for year 12. The only reason mine stayed is because he got 20% off the fees in scholarships.

Also, year 4 and 5 always have an influx from state to prep them in time for year 6 entrance exams. I don’t see this continuing.

@BrotherlyNonLove if what you say is correct, why haven't the above inflation increases in fees for the past 12 years had the same effect on student numbers?