Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Kier starmer! He hates strivers!

1000 replies

Bucketheadbucketbum · 30/11/2022 21:37

He wants to introduce a policy to put up the cost of school fees 10 to 15%. This is a tax on hard-working parents! We slave away cutting cots everywhere living hand to mouth to try and improve our childrens future . Live in an average house average area 1 shit car no holidays work like a dog to get our kids through. We are easing the burden on the state system by choosing independent schools. We're not sending them to Eton paid by our trust fund! Why does he want to punish strivers! Tax the energy companies! So disappointed. We need a new political party. What's the point in trying to better your future.

OP posts:
Isitsixoclockalready · 02/12/2022 21:24

MarshaBradyo · 02/12/2022 21:17

I read on here more people received benefits than paid tax in last couple of years.

Is there a limit to how comfortable the left feel with that. Maybe 75%

Someone else will always pay…

How much of that is due to the tax threshold and the daft universal credit system? I mean we could just assume that people on the left are happy for people to claim benefit and not work. That's a right wing tabloid dream. We could also consider how much money this government has wasted over the last 12 years. I suspect that people might just be cottoning on.

MarshaBradyo · 02/12/2022 21:33

Isitsixoclockalready · 02/12/2022 21:24

How much of that is due to the tax threshold and the daft universal credit system? I mean we could just assume that people on the left are happy for people to claim benefit and not work. That's a right wing tabloid dream. We could also consider how much money this government has wasted over the last 12 years. I suspect that people might just be cottoning on.

UC probably part of it. About half work and claim it apparently.

It was more reading these posts re a steadfast belief they are ‘subsidising the rich’.

CaronPoivre · 02/12/2022 21:33

MarshaBradyo · 02/12/2022 21:17

I read on here more people received benefits than paid tax in last couple of years.

Is there a limit to how comfortable the left feel with that. Maybe 75%

Someone else will always pay…

You shouldn’t believe everything you read and try to pass it off as unsubstantiated and misrepresented fact.

How many people in U.K. are employed? 32.7 million.
Number claiming universal credit? 5,571,000

The highest number of recipients of a benefit are state pensioners. There are 12,364,000 of them. I’d not want to take an 83 year olds state pension from them, would you?

Not sure you have to be terribly left wing not to want lots of bungalows with frozen corpses because we didn’t want to stop charitable funding for the 7% ‘s education. Not sure thinking that providing minimally for the 2,572,000 who claim PIP makes us a particularly socialist nation.

VivX · 02/12/2022 21:41

MarshaBradyo · 02/12/2022 21:17

I read on here more people received benefits than paid tax in last couple of years.

Is there a limit to how comfortable the left feel with that. Maybe 75%

Someone else will always pay…

"Someone else will always pay"

This seems a rather ironic comment, given that you're arguing for every taxpayer in the country to pick up the cost of the tax breaks for a small minority of parents who choose to use independent schools.

But of course, they're relieving the pressure on state schools that they're also paying for twice.

MarshaBradyo · 02/12/2022 21:43

Obviously it had an ONS figure attached. It wasn’t unsubstantiated.

Reductions in indirect taxes and increased benefits-in-kind, largely in response to the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic, drove the proportion of individuals receiving more in benefits than they paid in taxes increased from 47.5% to 54.2% in FYE 2021, the largest annual increase since records began in 1977.

I don’t think we need this to increase. Feels at a tipping point as it is.

CaronPoivre · 02/12/2022 21:53

MarshaBradyo · 02/12/2022 21:43

Obviously it had an ONS figure attached. It wasn’t unsubstantiated.

Reductions in indirect taxes and increased benefits-in-kind, largely in response to the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic, drove the proportion of individuals receiving more in benefits than they paid in taxes increased from 47.5% to 54.2% in FYE 2021, the largest annual increase since records began in 1977.

I don’t think we need this to increase. Feels at a tipping point as it is.

Since you say it’s pandemic related, it’s not very likely to increase, is it? I can’t imagine how hard it was for families who lost their income because of businesses folding and them being made redundant. Horrid.

I can’t imagine not thinking they needed support to come out the other side. I believe in hard work and people maximising their own fortunes but then I’m very lucky to have well paid secure employment that I enjoy. For some it’s really not that simple and redundancy hit many very unexpectedly.

MarshaBradyo · 02/12/2022 21:57

That’s a direct quote from ONS

It struck me as high. I was surprised and Covid aside I wouldn’t want it to get higher. Maybe Labour can do their policies without edging that up I hope so as it starts to look a bit too onerous.

Also

Also Income inequality decreased by 1.0 percentage point after all taxes and benefits between FYE 2020 and FYE 2021, following a 10-year period of relative stability.

Which I also noted as something you don’t hear often.

jgw1 · 02/12/2022 22:18

MadameSzyszkoBohusz · 02/12/2022 21:23

Then I'm not sure what your point is?

I think @MarshaBradyo point is that it is absolutely absurd that people in work are recieving benefits so that the bosses of companies can get richer instead of paying their workers a fair wage.

jgw1 · 02/12/2022 22:19

CaronPoivre · 02/12/2022 21:33

You shouldn’t believe everything you read and try to pass it off as unsubstantiated and misrepresented fact.

How many people in U.K. are employed? 32.7 million.
Number claiming universal credit? 5,571,000

The highest number of recipients of a benefit are state pensioners. There are 12,364,000 of them. I’d not want to take an 83 year olds state pension from them, would you?

Not sure you have to be terribly left wing not to want lots of bungalows with frozen corpses because we didn’t want to stop charitable funding for the 7% ‘s education. Not sure thinking that providing minimally for the 2,572,000 who claim PIP makes us a particularly socialist nation.

Don't forget child benefit, how many people recieve that?
Shocking numbers I dare say.

CaronPoivre · 02/12/2022 22:21

jgw1 · 02/12/2022 22:18

I think @MarshaBradyo point is that it is absolutely absurd that people in work are recieving benefits so that the bosses of companies can get richer instead of paying their workers a fair wage.

I'd agree with that sentiment. A business that cannot pay staff a living wage shouldn't be employing staff. It's not a business. There should be legal restrictions on executive salaries where all staff are not paid a living wage.

jgw1 · 02/12/2022 22:23

CaronPoivre · 02/12/2022 22:21

I'd agree with that sentiment. A business that cannot pay staff a living wage shouldn't be employing staff. It's not a business. There should be legal restrictions on executive salaries where all staff are not paid a living wage.

In a bid to get this back on thread. I wonder whether any private schools have staff on universal credit.

DuchessDandelion · 02/12/2022 22:23

CaronPoivre · 02/12/2022 22:21

I'd agree with that sentiment. A business that cannot pay staff a living wage shouldn't be employing staff. It's not a business. There should be legal restrictions on executive salaries where all staff are not paid a living wage.

There was wasn't there?

Until a recent budget...

MadameSzyszkoBohusz · 02/12/2022 22:24

"I think @MarshaBradyo point is that it is absolutely absurd that people in work are recieving benefits so that the bosses of companies can get richer instead of paying their workers a fair wage."

Well I can 100% agree with that.

jgw1 · 02/12/2022 22:26

MadameSzyszkoBohusz · 02/12/2022 22:24

"I think @MarshaBradyo point is that it is absolutely absurd that people in work are recieving benefits so that the bosses of companies can get richer instead of paying their workers a fair wage."

Well I can 100% agree with that.

And we can probably also all agree that in work benefits are all but Jeremy Corbyn's fault.

Bard6817 · 02/12/2022 22:27

If schools who operate as a charity lose their charitable status, then the charitable aims and objectives will go.

I wonder if people realise what that means….

It means…. In one scenario, Nothing to the tax coffers…. The companies involved will balance the books in order to make sure they don’t make a profit and thus pay no tax. A lot of private schools will invest in the facilities, buildings, or remunerate the senior mgmt better, etc. In another scenario, the shareholders will benefit…. Profit making organisations will return a dividend or profit to its owners. Great, the rich just got richer. And if you think there’s more tax coming from the real rich, hahahaha. Oh, and the kids who used to benefit from those charitable aims, subsidised places etc, won’t get them now. Great. You just increased inequality.

Id say there were richer pickings than schools though if charitable status was open to far more scruitiny. I don’t see many heads of schools driving lexus’s, porches or bentleys, but i do see that from the heads of other charities that made an absolute fortune from the last labour governments training initiatives, such as A2E (nice stately home paid a labour baroness for by the tax payer) or a training company that has had hundreds of millions of tax payers cash, but is half owned by a union, so i’m sure they aren’t too worried about the future. The bar for being a charity isn’t really that high, the salaries only have to be market appropriate, and any profits all go sit in their reserves, in fact a lot of them make a fair chunk of cash from investment returns on their reserves…. That’s not taxed either. I’m sure most do something good, but for that good, there’s a lot of taxpayer cash going out of the treasury coffers into private hands and a lot of tax not due.

People…. Stop looking at the headlines…. They are a distraction to the true excesses on both sides of the house and their ‘friends’.

I sent one of my kids to private school, & one declined. Would some extra % make any difference to me. Nope. I had to give up my indulgent hobbies and the family had to make a few concessions. Wasn’t hard, it was our kids education, nothings more important than that. I went through gladiator (state) school myself. It was awfull. If envy means you think that i’m a bad person or i should pay more tax, fair enough. I think i should pay less and that the benefits and criminal justice systems are a shambles and undermining our society, bringing out the best and worst in us. We have different opinions, we see the world differently, i see opportunity everywhere and every time the rules change, i look for the opportunity.

We are likely to see a Labour government soon, the pendulum swings the other way now, it’s about time. I’m glad just it’s not Corbyn. Irrespective, i’ve made provision that any labour wealth redistribution policies will have no impact me, in fact, i suspect i will be better off…. And all these silly headlines about tax grabs of this and that will have virtually no impact in the merry go round of the treasury filling its coffers and giving it away. I’m not the sharpest tool in the box by a long way, and if i can protect myself from a labour government, i’m pretty sure those with access to tax experts, offshore havens, multiple passports are much further ahead than i am. A rather sad society if you step back and look at it cynically.

MarshaBradyo · 02/12/2022 22:30

jgw1 · 02/12/2022 22:18

I think @MarshaBradyo point is that it is absolutely absurd that people in work are recieving benefits so that the bosses of companies can get richer instead of paying their workers a fair wage.

It was Labour who subsidised wages with WTC?

jgw1 · 02/12/2022 22:31

MarshaBradyo · 02/12/2022 22:30

It was Labour who subsidised wages with WTC?

Did you miss the bit where I said it was but Jeremy Corbyn's fault?

MarshaBradyo · 02/12/2022 22:33

jgw1 · 02/12/2022 22:31

Did you miss the bit where I said it was but Jeremy Corbyn's fault?

No you always post that I scrolled past the first time.

It was under Blair / Brown.

Once implemented it’s hard to reverse without crushing SME and increasing unemployment - or would you be ok with that?

jgw1 · 02/12/2022 22:34

I have created a new thread for when the time comes.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4690239-keir-starmer-loves-strivers-part-2

walkinginsunshinekat · 03/12/2022 08:58

WTC was just a rename of income support which was a rename of xxxxxxxx which was a rename of xxxxxxx......

Working benefits have been a thing in the UK since 1972.

Bought in by Edward Heath - a Tory .

That people think it was a Blair thing shows why we need better engagement in politics, people are voting on pure ignorance.

maybe ask why so many people working 40 hours a week are not being paid enough to live on?

jgw1 · 03/12/2022 09:15

walkinginsunshinekat · 03/12/2022 08:58

WTC was just a rename of income support which was a rename of xxxxxxxx which was a rename of xxxxxxx......

Working benefits have been a thing in the UK since 1972.

Bought in by Edward Heath - a Tory .

That people think it was a Blair thing shows why we need better engagement in politics, people are voting on pure ignorance.

maybe ask why so many people working 40 hours a week are not being paid enough to live on?

One could not possibly insist that the bosses were paid less and paid more in tax because they are so talented and so might leave and go and live in another country, taking their wonderful talent of exploiting others and enriching themselves with them.

MarshaBradyo · 03/12/2022 09:17

Oh yes they’re all fat cats. In that pandemic they were fine and just used all that profit sitting around rather than close.

I’m guessing three are comments by public sector workers

MarshaBradyo · 03/12/2022 09:21

These…

We’re back to that stage where the economy / businesses are some abstract that don’t impact livelihoods

That went well for the public sector when they clamoured to shut them down. Funding comes from somewhere

jgw1 · 03/12/2022 09:24

MarshaBradyo · 03/12/2022 09:17

Oh yes they’re all fat cats. In that pandemic they were fine and just used all that profit sitting around rather than close.

I’m guessing three are comments by public sector workers

Are you seriously trying to tell me that the boss of Royal Mail needs to be paid £753,000 a year otherwise the company will fall apart?
Or that water company bosses who run a monopoly deserve their on average above £100,000 bonuses for pumping so much sewage into our waterways?

MarshaBradyo · 03/12/2022 09:26

Have you heard of SMEs, know any local businesses, friends who work in them

Or is it Royal Mail / water level and rest public sector

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.