Kier starmer! He hates strivers!

[Bucketheadbucketbum]

He wants to introduce a policy to put up the cost of school fees 10 to 15%. This is a tax on hard-working parents! We slave away cutting cots everywhere living hand to mouth to try and improve our childrens future . Live in an average house average area 1 shit car no holidays work like a dog to get our kids through. We are easing the burden on the state system by choosing independent schools. We're not sending them to Eton paid by our trust fund! Why does he want to punish strivers! Tax the energy companies! So disappointed. We need a new political party. What's the point in trying to better your future.

Nursery fees, preschools and universities are all different from independent schools with charitable status and are subject to their own tax rules.

Private nurseries and preschools are also going to be paying tax on any profits.
Universities (apart from the handful of private universities) are largely not-for-profit, carry out research and (as @WeWereInParis mentions), "as a society we do need people with degrees, in a way that we don't need people with a private education. There is also no state funded alternative to university"

Where does the cash come from for the extra teachers that are needed for the potential 90k influx of private school kids? That 30k isn't going to go very far.

Private schools are not a charity so therefore should not get charitable status so easy decision
A vast majority who go to private can afford the interest as well as many attract overseas students etc
The rest will have to use a state school like the vast majority but you can still afford tutors and food and heat and have nice experiences so still better off than many
Or work two jobs to pay the extra like many do just to survive

I have taught a few students whose parents have access to more money and resources that anyone could possibly ever need.
Those children are not always fine.

@socialmedia23
"I am a Green party member. I also live in London where in order to get into a good school, you either pay or pray. Pay school fees, expensive house in catchment area or grammar school tutoring. Pick your poison. It isn't fair. Or go to church/synagogue."

I don't understand - do the parents who pay for their children's education all live in deprived areas or, and this is just speculation, is it possible that as they are already the richest sector of society, they already live in affluent areas and this is actually not relevant at all?

The 90,000 number is a figure made up by the independent schools council, who repeatedly refuse to engage with how they came to that figure. The evidence from the past 12 years when private fees have gone up much faster than inflation it that increase has not had an impact on student numbers.

Interesting @jgw1 do you have a link to that? What numbers have left because of the price increase?

Private cost has gone up over the years. The type of person paying has changed though so it does have an impact.

It’s become further out of reach for many professions which will increase with another rise, if it’s VAT

Sam Freedman (former Tory education spad) has a good piece in the New Statesman debunking the 'study' that the 90,000 figure comes from.

Gosh this is away down the track a bit isn't it? No election till 2025 and why would Starmer win? Would this be the first thing he did and come into effect immediately? Would it get done at all? I wouldn't get too aerated about this happening for at least six years.

Here is an article about the increase in private school fees.

www.theguardian.com/education/2021/oct/08/english-private-school-fees-90-higher-than-state-school-spending-per-pupil

And the Independent Schools Council are proud to point out that there are now more privately educated students than at any previous time in my lifetime (before which records were not kept). But the same ISC are whinging about paying their fair share.

www.isc.co.uk/media/8444/isc_census_2022.pdf

Not before time.

Given that Labour are currently predicted to have a 200 seat majority, you must think something dramatic will change before the next general election.

www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.html

The City of Chester by-election will be interesting. The sitting Labour MP resigned after allegations of serious sexual assault. So one would suppose it would be a challenge for Labour to hold onto what is not a particularly red seat in a fairly conservative area.

Independent schools are businesses not charities. It seems wrong to allow them tax breaks. I appreciate you want the tax incentives but really why should the rest of the country not benefit from the tax which could be claimed on your fees? It's nothing to do with envy (I used to work in an independent school and my wages were paid by the fees in effect). Yes, if this happened some children might have to move-or maybe existing children might be allowed to keep the tax breaks and new pupils would have to pay it, who knows! But the tax incentives never seemed fair to me.

Living in an affluent area is not the same as living within a catchment area of a good school. Plenty of affluent areas with bad secondary school options. Large parts of Islington fall into that category (rich people do live there alongside poor people but secondary options are poor in many parts). Hence why many parents leave Islington for areas like Camden or Finchley when the kids are little older.

It's not speculation. Like I said, when I was buying in 2019, I viewed a flat where the owner was someone who also owned a 4 bed house in wood green (and could afford private school, in fact her daughter went to a private primary school). The 4 bed house was left empty, she moved into the flat with her daughter to get a place in the school. There are articles in the telegraph which calculate cost of moving vs private school.

Not all rich people necessarily live in affluent areas. Most areas have good streets and bad streets and desirable housing stock Vs undesirable. Affluent areas esp in London may have young professionals living in undesirable housing stock but equally poorer or average areas may have rich people who buy desirable housing stock (esp since UK has a shortage in supply of housing). Like if you want a Victorian house in London, it's possible to spend £1 million or £1.4 million on it even in what is considered to be a poor area. After all, not all rich people have the same taste.

However, when schools are in the equation, parents who wish to go the state route have little choice but to live in the 0.5 mile catchment area and therefore this pushes up prices in the immediate area for everyone.

The lack of critical thinking and ability to evaluate sources being shown on this thread makes one despair about the state of education in general.

'90,000 would definitely flow into the state sector!'
'where does that number come from? What assumptions is it based on?'
'Um....'

'This would flood the state sector and require dozens of new schools!'
'Actually the school population is due to peak in the next couple of years and then drop quite quickly, which can create problems for schools.'
'DOZENS OR HUNDREDS OF NEW SCHOOLS.'

In fact the lady who owned the flat told me she decided to invest in property rather than pay for private school, hence why she bought the flat within 0.1 miles of Fortismere for £350k! This was a second property. She had to pay additional stamp duty..

I am sure many private school parents on this thread don't have spare £350k to spend on their kids' education.

@jgw1 but there is still not going to be an election before 2025, is there? Plus laws take time to pass and are frequently phased in over a period of time. In addition parties seldom do what they promise in their manifestos. So - six years, if at all, and I bet many private schools will make a plan for kids already attending from the squeezed middle.

Loving watching people on here twisting themselves inside out to justify a tiered education system.

How would you make it equal?

Thanks @jgw1

So there are 95,991 children with SEN, do children with SEN get more funding in the state sector?

£480 million pounds worth of means tested assistance, so potentially a fair amount of that cost could also be placed on the state sector or am I misunderstanding?

It's not fair within the state system. Good London state schools are better than private schools in the region in terms of results. That's not fair either. It's because london schools get more funding.

Not my fault you don't understand what "almost" means.

Bulb was effectively taken into state ownership, otherwise it would have gone bust, cost us all £6.5 billion, as well you know, just using mealy-mouthed words aren't you to cover up Tory failure of yet another privatisation gone wrong.

£6.6bn ! enough to give nhs staff a 9% pay rise.

And people pay via house prices to access them

Not sure why houses prices are being used to justify charitable tax status.

Of course building more houses might ease the housing crisis. But that's nothing to do with private schools have charitable status either.