Does the UK have a racism problem?

[JolllyBee]

In just the last 24 hours alone we've had in the news:

Prince William’s godmother quits palace over comments to black charity boss

Meghan Markle had several 'disgusting' and credible threats to her life, Met cop reveals

Various people's census rants going viral and getting a scary amount of support

James McAvoy shocked by hometown racism in Glasgow after castmates abused on street

and a few days prior:

London Fire Brigade houses a toxic culture of bullying, racism and misogyny, inquiry finds

Exactly. I don’t mind discussing my background but when I don’t fit the stereotype that fits some people’s heads, it gets awkward or they make assumptions based on it and treat me differently or they want to lump all pocs with a certain skin tone into a monolith when our ethnic backgrounds are all different and we have completely different diets and traditions.

People here have pointed out how they don’t like being lumped as all English when they’re from Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland so why do some think pocs want it done to them.

I think it does to be honest. I imagine it is better now than it used to be but that is not gd enough!

I also notice it in the older generation where I live. They say things they really shouldn't but aren't aware that it's racist. They would say it's just how they were brought up 🙄

It's pretty sad and I just I don't get it. I take a person as they are, no matter their race, sexual orientation etc, none of that matters.

To be honest i think what I find almost more upsetting than overt racism is the insistence that it's fine because the UK isn't the most racist country in the world. It feels as if people are saying that the status quo is good enough for people of colour. That we should be grateful that we are treated all right a lot of the time and making a fuss of when we aren't is ungrateful.

I think Lawrence Fox (and many on this thread who keep talking about how racism is worse elsewhere) is a bigger racist than Susan Hussey.

I’ve been thinking about this thread and the bizarre nature of the question posed all night last night. And it’s just hit me now while it bothers me so much. The OP cited recent newspaper articles that point her to posing the question, innocently, as if she is shocked she hadn’t realised it before…

And I can’t stop thinking about newspaper articles,TV documentaries, TV news stories, that I have read and watched my whole life.
racism in housing, healthcare, education (school, university, post-grad), general workplace, the police force, academia, the armed forces, politics (at the highest level!) , movies, music industry, sports….

and I wonder what the HELL has the OP been doing in her life that she has to ask if MN thinks there is a racism problem in the UK. And it makes me so angry to scroll through these comments and it be reduced to ‘Lady Hussey is an old lady and doesn’t know any better, that’s how she talks’ and ‘I’m so scared of offending someone because everyone is so sensitive’. Or the best was ‘every country is racist’ and ‘non white people are racist too!’ Like al of this makes some kind of difference to the original question.

bloody shut up and grow a pair. Britain is a disgustingly racist place and just because you don’t see it in front of you on a daily basis, it doesn’t mean it’s not. What it probably means is that you’re wilfully blind! And don’t want to see it because it means you are in a a position of white supremacy and getting rid of racism means you have to give that up and you’re scared to.

Oh whatever.

Try working for an Indian company and you'll see some real racism. They're much more racist about Pakistanis than most whites would ever dare be.

But yeah, technically this is a pretty racist country when you add the non white racists to the white racists.

Never experienced any racism from anyone of Indian heritage, or while in India.

‘Would ever dare be’

I think that says it’s all.

racism isn’t always an active choice. That’s why a country or a system becomes or remains racist. Obviously you have no concept of this.

Try working for an Indian company and you'll see some real racism. They're much more racist about Pakistanis than most whites would ever dare be.
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Or try working in a factory alongside East Europeans. That's a eye opener.

As this is the nth thread on this, and they always go the same way I.e. any poster who disagrees with the OP is racist, what is the point of them? It seems to be the same posters (including me, I know) coming on again and again and nothing changing.
I suppose it's the replacement for the eternal Brexit boards.

The UK, and the world, has a problem of outrage obsessed social media and a media who like to create news rather than report news. Social media and the media in general just likes to create division today.

That's true

Done exactly that, not a problem (weighing cooked pasta also gets very old very quickly).

But you must know that Sikhs and Muslims don't always get along?

It depends on you define racism.

If it is now acceptable to call I'm a Celebrity racist because the first people voted out were black, then yes it is.

If it is now not acceptable to make a perfectly valid negative point about a black person because it is judged that racism must be the driving force behind it, then yes it is.

I don't think either of these examples are racist and yet they have been held up to be so.

So, it seems to me that the bar for racism is being set lower and lower and as it becomes more so then everyone will be accused of racism-there will be no way in which to avoid it.

A bit like many of the supporters/instigators behind the French Revolution or The Russian Revolution-eventually they were executed because it became easier and easier to find some way in which they had transgressed.

It matters because in the end-when everyone is accused or accuses themselves of racism (individuals or institutions)-no-one will pay any heed to these accusations. It is an unpalatable fact but this is already happening.

There are already cartoons and jokes going around using the Sacha Baron Cohen punchline, "Is it because I is black?"

I have heard this line from people in a private capacity who, in their public capacity, sing exactly the opposite line.

So no, in a real sense I don't think this is a racist country BUT if the bar for defining a racist continues to drop then it will be portrayed as such and there will be very very few who will never find themselves in breach of such a low bar.

As a Sikh, who grew up in a multi-faith household with family friends etc on both faith sides, not really a huge issue. It isn’t a Sikh v Muslim thing, its an issue of control over land, it isn’t about religion. And obviously as us Sikhs and Muslims are humans, we don’t all get along, just as not all Sikhs get along with all other Sikhs.

My DH and family are all Indian Hindus. My DH is not racist but I've heard dreadful racism from his wider family. They seem very anti-muslim and send us awful BNP type videos about the "Muslim problem" in the UK. They also look down on black people (of African heritage) and I've experienced racism as a white person in India. One of my DH's more enlightened cousins told me that India is the most racist country on earth! I'm please to report that the Indians I now in the UK are NOT like this.

When I visited India,it was very noticeable what an enormous market for skin lightening creams there were.

On the whole the majority of UK people are NOT racist and I find it incredibly insulting to insinuate that an entire nation is. There are of course fringes of dreadful racists and people who are gunning to stir up violence and hatred and these people drag the entire country downward. This small minority is making everyone completely paranoid so that innocent things are getting twisted in the wrong way to be sinister. Similarly racism from the minority is being used to drive forward agendas from other small and very vocal groups and this is being used against normal UK citizens of all races and backgrounds in a way that is toxic and divisive.

Racism is definitely a problem for the UK. It's a problem wherever it exists. Because it is illogical, unjust and shit for the society that tolerates it.🤷‍♀️

Who exactly said that everyone in the country is racist?

No one, but simply posing the question about racism specifically in the UK causes outrage when it’s not even said.

I believe that people CAN NOT be racist but say racist things without realising it (through upbringing, the way society phrases things, history, etc) but even saying that, it doesn’t take away the harm it does to those effected. Overtly, covertly, it still has an effect and some becomes so pervasive that certain things are simply accepted and causing harm to undeserved people.

I think you need to make sure you make the distinction between individual racism and institutionalised racism. One skinhead waving a St. George’s Cross screaming p**i go home is an extreme case of individual racism and no I don’t think anyone would say that the UK is filled with people this. But the UK does have a real problem with individual and casual and probably unintentional racism….. (Lady Hussey gave us a good example…) and also institutionalised racism…. Which has been well documented.
reading works like White Fragility and How to be an Antiracist helps one understand how racism is embedded so deeply in society and the psyche of a nation that it’s hard to actually identify it. It’s so commonplace and so part of our daily lives and basic functioning that people can’t see it and when it’s highlighted cannot accept it.

I just don’t believe that hating someone because they have a certain skin colour is as prevalent as believed. Most friction is because of cultural not racial differences. Institutions are set up to serve historical British hierarchy and are not purposefully hostile to different cultures, they are like it symptomatically. Maybe it’s important to realise that it works all ways. Cultures generally don’t tolerate different cultures very well. That’s different from racism where tribalism comes into force solely because someone looks different from you. There was nothing wrong with what Hussey said in those circumstances. NOT asking her where she was from could have been seen as rude, or ignoring her, or overlooking her evident desire to promote her African sentiments. To say it is is taking a hostile stance by failing to give someone the benefit of the doubt, which in this context came down to the fact that a person from one race or background is not allowed to say certain things to another. You can deconstruct anything you like and build it up again in a narrative that suits your cause. I agree there is racism but mainly it’s culture wars. You can’t change your race but you can choose your culture.

Lady SH's racism to Ngozi Fulani was very much intentional.

For those who acted as cheerleader for Sistah Space after the Lady Hussey incident, you may wish to pop over to Twitter.

A twitter account (JustPikachoo) has gone into a huge deep dive on the woman involved, her family, and the quite interesting finances of the charity and it looks very much like she may regret all the publicity. The Charities Commission has been made aware along with Hackney council, the London Community Fund and Comic Relief and will no doubt have to launch an enquiry. And yes, the twitter account holder has a raft of evidence that was all in the public domain.

Seems the whole charity is little more than a questionable fraud.

The whole thread (it's long as it's fully proved) is here threadreaderapp.com/thread/1601735411860406274.html