Page 20 | Does the UK have a racism problem?

JolllyBee · 2022-11-30T20:43:39+00:00

In just the last 24 hours alone we've had in the news: *Prince William’s godmother quits palace over comments to black charity boss* *Meghan Markle had several 'disgusting' and credible threats to her life, Met cop reveals* *Various people's census rants going viral and getting a scary amount of support* *James McAvoy shocked by hometown racism in Glasgow after castmates abused on street* and a few days prior: *London Fire Brigade houses a toxic culture of bullying, racism and misogyny, inquiry finds*

TruckerBarbie · 07/12/2022 19:57

Outside of hardline racist groups, which often seem to be the reserve of the uneducated/skinheads etc, most racism I've seen is from the middle/upper classes. Those in positions of privilege that are unattainable for many BAME people.

I'm on building sites every day and see loads of Eastern European, black, Indian, Pakistani, etc, guys working elbow to elbow with white working class British lads. I think snobbery and racism often go hand in hand.

MarshaBradyo · 07/12/2022 20:27

Gingerangel · 07/12/2022 17:19

I just don’t think it’s fair to tar everyone with the same brush, I’m sorry but the majority of people in the UK are NOT racist. A small few are, but it’s a tiny amount compared to the whole of the UK, and yes those people are assholes. But this isn’t the UK as a whole 🙄.

Look who is PM of the country right now… is he of white British heritage???
In the UK you can literally get the highest most important job in the country whatever your skin colour or heritage is. That’s because we are an accepting and multicultural society. That should be celebrated. That’s a really good thing.

In day to day life. About 50% of my workplace is made up of employees who have different heritage and are not white. Everyone is treated with the same respect. I enjoy working with these people and some of them I would actually consider friends.

Im just sick to the back teeth of all these threads accusing everyone in the UK of being racist. It’s just not true!

Show quote history

We’re pretty good at being tolerant as comparisons go.

phoenixrosehere · 08/12/2022 06:26

Gingerangel · 07/12/2022 17:19

I just don’t think it’s fair to tar everyone with the same brush, I’m sorry but the majority of people in the UK are NOT racist. A small few are, but it’s a tiny amount compared to the whole of the UK, and yes those people are assholes. But this isn’t the UK as a whole 🙄.

Look who is PM of the country right now… is he of white British heritage???
In the UK you can literally get the highest most important job in the country whatever your skin colour or heritage is. That’s because we are an accepting and multicultural society. That should be celebrated. That’s a really good thing.

In day to day life. About 50% of my workplace is made up of employees who have different heritage and are not white. Everyone is treated with the same respect. I enjoy working with these people and some of them I would actually consider friends.

Im just sick to the back teeth of all these threads accusing everyone in the UK of being racist. It’s just not true!

Show quote history

No one has said that the entire of the UK is racist though nor should us being more tolerable than other countries be enough. That is not deserving of a pat on the back and everything is just fine.

I also don’t agree that having a non-white British PM for the first time is proof of how non-racist the UK can be after how many years? Was there really no one good enough who happened to be non-white in that time until now?

The fact is that it should be acknowledged that there are different elements of racism in the U.K. and that there are people effected by it through no fault of their own and it is more than just the overt but the casual versions said with a smile regardless of intent. They still have to live with, deal with it, and are harmed by it. We can do better and be better than we’re “more tolerable than other countries”.

Not talking about it, getting annoyed and upset instead of asking what can be done about it, what steps can be made shows how tolerable some really are.

Lunar270 · 08/12/2022 07:31

Gingerangel · 07/12/2022 17:19

I just don’t think it’s fair to tar everyone with the same brush, I’m sorry but the majority of people in the UK are NOT racist. A small few are, but it’s a tiny amount compared to the whole of the UK, and yes those people are assholes. But this isn’t the UK as a whole 🙄.

Look who is PM of the country right now… is he of white British heritage???
In the UK you can literally get the highest most important job in the country whatever your skin colour or heritage is. That’s because we are an accepting and multicultural society. That should be celebrated. That’s a really good thing.

In day to day life. About 50% of my workplace is made up of employees who have different heritage and are not white. Everyone is treated with the same respect. I enjoy working with these people and some of them I would actually consider friends.

Im just sick to the back teeth of all these threads accusing everyone in the UK of being racist. It’s just not true!

Show quote history

Literally no-one is tarring anyone with the same brush so have no idea what you're on about or why you're so 'sick to the back teeth'.

I think someone needs to get the crayons to spell it out to you but your anecdotal evidence has little or no bearing on how things are across the UK. Perhaps in your little bubble but there's a big wide world outside.

By your rationale I guess we can call off the feminists as we've had three female PM's now so the UK can't be sexist. Maybe just a few people are but nothing to see here 🤦

I enjoy working with these people and some of them I would actually consider friends.

Dear God, 'these people'. Are you LH by any chance? They should be grateful I guess that you might even consider them as friends. Only some though? Easy, don't want to let too many of us in 🤣

Kissmybaubles · 08/12/2022 07:47

Mildura · 30/11/2022 23:18

There are racism issues, although there are significant racism issues in the vast majority of countries. The UK does better than most, but that’s not to say there isn’t room for improvement.

This 👏

The UK is far better than other countries YABU

Kissmybaubles · 08/12/2022 07:50

It’s unfair to say the UK has a racist problem. There are lots of good people in the UK who would be the first to call out racism when they see it

CornedBeef451 · 08/12/2022 08:06

Yes of course there is racism here. A couple of weeks ago DH got asked if he'd just got off a boat. Considering we live in the midlands it didn't seem to be related to his travel choices.

Since Brexit he's also been shouted at to go back home, I've been asked if my DCs are mine, a friend has been told in the supermarket that she should be ashamed of having children with a black man and colleague's boyfriend was called a monkey at work.

Oh and a Chinese colleague has been shouted at and harassed in the street since the start of covid.

Marths · 08/12/2022 09:24

Kissmybaubles · 08/12/2022 07:50

It’s unfair to say the UK has a racist problem. There are lots of good people in the UK who would be the first to call out racism when they see it

Having good people does not preclude a place from having a racism problem.

808Kate1 · 08/12/2022 09:39

Kissmybaubles · 08/12/2022 07:50

It’s unfair to say the UK has a racist problem. There are lots of good people in the UK who would be the first to call out racism when they see it

Unfair to who? People who call it out and the many people who are victims should just suck it up?

Could say that about any country regardless of their levels of racism

Ohlife2020 · 08/12/2022 10:23

phoenixrosehere · 08/12/2022 06:26

No one has said that the entire of the UK is racist though nor should us being more tolerable than other countries be enough. That is not deserving of a pat on the back and everything is just fine.

I also don’t agree that having a non-white British PM for the first time is proof of how non-racist the UK can be after how many years? Was there really no one good enough who happened to be non-white in that time until now?

The fact is that it should be acknowledged that there are different elements of racism in the U.K. and that there are people effected by it through no fault of their own and it is more than just the overt but the casual versions said with a smile regardless of intent. They still have to live with, deal with it, and are harmed by it. We can do better and be better than we’re “more tolerable than other countries”.

Not talking about it, getting annoyed and upset instead of asking what can be done about it, what steps can be made shows how tolerable some really are.

Show quote history

This!!! ❤@phoenixrosehere 👏

Ohlife2020 · 08/12/2022 10:32

CornedBeef451 · 08/12/2022 08:06

Yes of course there is racism here. A couple of weeks ago DH got asked if he'd just got off a boat. Considering we live in the midlands it didn't seem to be related to his travel choices.

Since Brexit he's also been shouted at to go back home, I've been asked if my DCs are mine, a friend has been told in the supermarket that she should be ashamed of having children with a black man and colleague's boyfriend was called a monkey at work.

Oh and a Chinese colleague has been shouted at and harassed in the street since the start of covid.

Sorry for your DH's experience. Got the feeling that outside London which is highly multinational, some inland area where people aren't exposed to multicultural, more of them tend to be less tolerant and more stereotypes can be going on than London in general.

We live at outer London, can already feel the local white English mum's are less easy to get on with than people of the same profile from inner London. Some can be quite outright rude, but have no problems to be chatty and friendly among themselves.

Kazzyhoward · 08/12/2022 12:25

Ohlife2020 · 08/12/2022 10:32

Sorry for your DH's experience. Got the feeling that outside London which is highly multinational, some inland area where people aren't exposed to multicultural, more of them tend to be less tolerant and more stereotypes can be going on than London in general.

We live at outer London, can already feel the local white English mum's are less easy to get on with than people of the same profile from inner London. Some can be quite outright rude, but have no problems to be chatty and friendly among themselves.

Show quote history

There are different kinds of "racism".

Yes, in rural/regional areas, anyone who isn't "like the locals" can feel discriminated against, that's not always based on colour of your skin - there are numerous reports of Welsh white people being discriminatory against English white people for example. But that kind of discrimination is often simply because people are different, and in some close knit communities, any kind of "outsider" is viewed with suspicion, and I would hope that no actual harm is intended.

In inner cities, the racism is often more explicit and overt and often linked to violence, and you have "black on black" racism which is also often common. Some of worst racism I've seen was from an Asian family towards Black Africans for example (culminating in one of the brothers being convicted and imprisoned!).

There's certainly no "one size fits all" answer that would deal with both types of discrimination, as a general "be nice" and open towards outsiders publicity/education campaign would probably work in rural areas who don't inheritently wish harm on anyone, but completely misses the target when trying to deal with inner city gangs or employers employing illegal immigrants in squalid conditions who know exactly what harm they're doing and simply don't care!

Kazzyhoward · 08/12/2022 12:29

@Ohlife2020

We live at outer London, can already feel the local white English mum's are less easy to get on with than people of the same profile from inner London.

That could also be that those Mum's are a bit more introverted, shy or reserved than the ones from the inner city? Certainly in our village school, which was mostly "white" mums, there were lots who weren't over-friendly even towards each other, with lots of them waiting around on their own rather than getting together for a gossip.

Ohlife2020 · 08/12/2022 12:36

Kazzyhoward · 08/12/2022 12:29

@Ohlife2020

We live at outer London, can already feel the local white English mum's are less easy to get on with than people of the same profile from inner London.

That could also be that those Mum's are a bit more introverted, shy or reserved than the ones from the inner city? Certainly in our village school, which was mostly "white" mums, there were lots who weren't over-friendly even towards each other, with lots of them waiting around on their own rather than getting together for a gossip.

Over so many years, I have already let down any judgement.

Some are truly unfriendly and wouldn't bother to acknowledge your existence.
Some are only interested in people within their own circle (known each other prior to RC year).
Some are just uncomfortable to engage with people from very different background and don't see it a problem to avoid and stay in their own comfort zone.

Ive decided most of them aren't racist, just prefer to deal with what they know (like ordering the same food in pubs all the time) than having to step out of what they feel under control.

Prettypissedoff88 · 08/12/2022 13:17

Do you really need to ask???? Genuinely do you need MN to answer that question.

of course there is a a racism problem in the UK. And I feel that if you need to ask that question, that kind of proves it. It means that no one is listening to the experiences of people of colour who are constantly telling white Britain that there is a serious problem with racism… casual and deliberate institutionalised racism.

808Kate1 · 08/12/2022 13:25

phoenixrosehere · 08/12/2022 06:26

No one has said that the entire of the UK is racist though nor should us being more tolerable than other countries be enough. That is not deserving of a pat on the back and everything is just fine.

I also don’t agree that having a non-white British PM for the first time is proof of how non-racist the UK can be after how many years? Was there really no one good enough who happened to be non-white in that time until now?

The fact is that it should be acknowledged that there are different elements of racism in the U.K. and that there are people effected by it through no fault of their own and it is more than just the overt but the casual versions said with a smile regardless of intent. They still have to live with, deal with it, and are harmed by it. We can do better and be better than we’re “more tolerable than other countries”.

Not talking about it, getting annoyed and upset instead of asking what can be done about it, what steps can be made shows how tolerable some really are.

Show quote history

Yes, agree with phoenixrosehere

And this silly argument that we can't be a racist country because we have an Asian prime minister reminds me of the people who claim the Royal Family absolutely can't be racist because we had a Queen over 200 years ago who was (apparently) mixed race.

Abracadabra12345 · 08/12/2022 13:32

BMW6 · 30/11/2022 21:20

Of course. There is no country in the entire world that doesn't have racism.

Not one.

Quite

Abracadabra12345 · 08/12/2022 13:37

ReformedWaywardTeen · 01/12/2022 06:38

It depends on what you consider racism.

Nigel Farage is of course a massive and unashamed racist. As is anyone to do with or supportive of far right groups.

However, the Lady Hussey thing really doesn't sit comfortably with me as racism.

Here are two women, at the palace. One an older lady who comes from another era and a class system that many of us don't really understand the workings of.
The other, a woman who considers herself British, as she was born here so is quite correct to do so, but whose parents were immigrants to the country. She had already made quite inflammatory comments on the Royals regards Meghan (suggesting Meghan was the victim of Domestic violence by her in-laws).

Lady Hussey's generation speak very differently to us. I believe that when she said about where her people come from, to her "people" means family in general. Sadly people of that generation are most likely to unintentionally cause offence. Why did the woman not just say "I was born here but my parents are originally from x".

Looking at the way she handled it was to almost push the conversation into something she could complain about.

I also don't get the run to Twitter angle. Why not just raise it with the palace. And why, if you had already said of your belief that the Royal Family are guilty of domestic violence would you even accept an invite to attend the palace?

I've seen some nastier people use this to suggest she went with an axe to grind and went looking for trouble. If anything, she will probably experience far worse now because of the way she has brought this to the public attention, especially when some are already suggesting she is racist by only extending her domestic abuse charity to women from one specific community.

I think it's about language and some older folk of the same class as Lady Hussey speak very differently to the rest of our younger generations.

I also don't think that it helps that every day seems to bring another accusation of some sort. That filters the real cases down and means people are more likely to pass off genuine abuse as another snowflake engaging in cancel culture.

So yes, we do have racism. Yes there are some proper scumbags out there aided by Boris and co. Yes the football will probably see a rise in incidents.

But not everything is racist. Not every white person is secretly engaging in far right activities. Not everyone with an England flag up for the football is a card carrying far right supporter. Most of us are truly embarrassed about Farage, Hopkins and Robinson.

Thank you

Abracadabra12345 · 08/12/2022 13:52

mamabear715 · 03/12/2022 11:57

Ok, my story, FWIW.. school meeting, asked a chinese lady where she was from - yes, just like Lady Susan. Sharp intake of breath from the rest of the (white, middle class) room. Lady wasn't bothered at all & told me her heritage, which happened to be where a family member grew up, and we had a lovely chat.

I didn't mean anything by it, am just naturally interested in people.. should I have held my tongue, & missed out on our conversation?
I hate the feeling that I have to watch everything I say. :-(
I love people, am genuinely interested & feel that if we all stay quiet for fear of causing offence, it's pretty isolating way to be. Am I wrong?

If we meet someone of colour, my Turkish friend and another friend - also of colour _ openly ask where someone is from. I’m cringing - “you can’t ask that!” - but no one ever is offended and are proud to discuss their heritage, and why wouldn’t they be? Why act as if you are ashamed?

Kissmybaubles · 08/12/2022 14:14

Abracadabra12345 · 08/12/2022 13:52

If we meet someone of colour, my Turkish friend and another friend - also of colour _ openly ask where someone is from. I’m cringing - “you can’t ask that!” - but no one ever is offended and are proud to discuss their heritage, and why wouldn’t they be? Why act as if you are ashamed?

Show quote history

This 👏

being over sensitive and seeing racism in situations that are not racist are what makes communication even harder and will make ‘white’ people afraid to even talk to people of different heritage for fear of being Perceived racist 🙄

you can see example’s of that throughout this thread. People accidentally saying the wrong thing and instantly being jumped on for being ‘racist’. Ffs no wonder white people are avoiding people of other race… And then they are accused of racism again.

Come on now, most people are not racist🤦‍♀️

Kissmybaubles · 08/12/2022 14:16

“We live at outer London, can already feel the local white English mum's are less easy to get on with than people of the same profile from inner London.”

Maybe they are afraid of being accused as racist so think it’s wise to just keep to themselves 🫣

ChristmasNoodles · 08/12/2022 15:03

Ritasueandbobtoo9 · 05/12/2022 21:13

If you have lived in other countries you will realise that other country are also racist.

If you have had stones thrown at you, had kids yell "pakis out", have had other weird stuff thrown at you (like take away food or cigarettes), been called a terrorist, told you should know your place because you are not from here, ETC...if all these things had happened to you, your family or friends or god forbid your children, do you really think it would be a consolation to think that other countries are racist too?

I live here. My family lives here. My children live here. Don't tell me to be grateful that I am only sometimes treated as a second class citizen because of the colour of my skin.

Ohlife2020 · 08/12/2022 15:11

Kissmybaubles · 08/12/2022 14:16

“We live at outer London, can already feel the local white English mum's are less easy to get on with than people of the same profile from inner London.”

Maybe they are afraid of being accused as racist so think it’s wise to just keep to themselves 🫣

You are being ironic and I said they aren't racists, just not comfortable to talk to people from different background. What you said might be some people's thoughts (like yourself) but certainly not a concern of most of the English people.

Ohlife2020 · 08/12/2022 15:16

Abracadabra12345 · 08/12/2022 13:52

If we meet someone of colour, my Turkish friend and another friend - also of colour _ openly ask where someone is from. I’m cringing - “you can’t ask that!” - but no one ever is offended and are proud to discuss their heritage, and why wouldn’t they be? Why act as if you are ashamed?

Show quote history

There IS a problem of stereotype. Modern culture make people think others as a group shared common traits first thing when they know the background. People don't want to disclose where they are from, not because they are ashamed. Each is an individual, some just don't want to be labelled and stereotyped.

You are talking from a single minded thoughts, as if that's the only way should be done.

phoenixrosehere · 08/12/2022 15:20

Kazzyhoward · 08/12/2022 12:25

There are different kinds of "racism".

Yes, in rural/regional areas, anyone who isn't "like the locals" can feel discriminated against, that's not always based on colour of your skin - there are numerous reports of Welsh white people being discriminatory against English white people for example. But that kind of discrimination is often simply because people are different, and in some close knit communities, any kind of "outsider" is viewed with suspicion, and I would hope that no actual harm is intended.

In inner cities, the racism is often more explicit and overt and often linked to violence, and you have "black on black" racism which is also often common. Some of worst racism I've seen was from an Asian family towards Black Africans for example (culminating in one of the brothers being convicted and imprisoned!).

There's certainly no "one size fits all" answer that would deal with both types of discrimination, as a general "be nice" and open towards outsiders publicity/education campaign would probably work in rural areas who don't inheritently wish harm on anyone, but completely misses the target when trying to deal with inner city gangs or employers employing illegal immigrants in squalid conditions who know exactly what harm they're doing and simply don't care!

Show quote history

black on black" racism

It’s called same-race discrimination. It happens in all races. It boggles my mind why that term isn’t used more considering it is normal in all race groups, yet black on black is often said.