Does the UK have a racism problem?

[JolllyBee]

In just the last 24 hours alone we've had in the news:

Prince William’s godmother quits palace over comments to black charity boss

Meghan Markle had several 'disgusting' and credible threats to her life, Met cop reveals

Various people's census rants going viral and getting a scary amount of support

James McAvoy shocked by hometown racism in Glasgow after castmates abused on street

and a few days prior:

London Fire Brigade houses a toxic culture of bullying, racism and misogyny, inquiry finds

Because you had quoted me in your post and then used the name change line. Pretty clear to me that was directed my way.

I mean in the sense that many are scared to voice anything at all. There have been quite polite and well thought out comments on this thread which have been hysterically shouted down, dissected and pulled apart so that poster can decree them as a bigot.

Even your saying you have a diverse friendship circle in many cases can and does result in people acting like you're a fully paid up member of the far right. It's bullshit.

And the sad fact is most of this race to prove offense doesn't come from the people being defended. It comes from other white people.

Someone upthread said they asked a lady where she was from and received a sharp intake of breath round the room with the white folk. The lady she asked wasn't offended at all. Sometimes we are so keen to be seen as defending people we go over board. I know of many BAME people who get sick of it. Who say it filters down real, actual cases of racism and discrimination because the likes of the Daily Mail can shout woke and snowflake.

And why should we segregate help? Or groups on general? What's the point in that? No one's experience of DV is more or less important than anyone else's. It's a vile thing to experience and being able to know you're not alone is a great help- I speak from experience.

Why complain about exclusion in the community and then set up a group that excludes everyone but your fellow smaller community? It does make the argument weak because you've chosen to only offer help to one group.

I'm sure you will now dissect this for your own cause and tell me that separate groups is discrimination or some other such term that makes it OK.
But it's not OK. It's furthering the us and them.

And no, not upset in my thread just baffled that we cannot win, many of us want to support causes but what's the point when to do so would be questioned and met with hostility?

YANBU @JolllyBee. Take what happened at the Palace this week:
Lady SH was racist to an invited guest.
There were witnesses who called the exchange racist and offensive.
The incident was investigated by the Palace who issued a statement calling Lady SH"s unacceptable and deeply regrettable and added Racism has no place in society.

Yet people who weren't there refuse to believe it. That's a racism problem.

@mamabear715 , It's not the question itself, it's how this has been asked. You asked at a low key social setting where everyone has relatively equal social status. The Chinese lady herself has moved to this country (1st generation of immigrants). So to answer the question comes naturally without thinking twice. I'm sure if she showed any disinterest in disclosing it, you wouldn't press on and on until you get the answer you wanted, because you know how to respect the other person.

Lady SH did it in a different way. She inevitably is positioned next to the power of the palace which already was hardly "equal" to those guests who are from the society. The charity lady was born in this country and she feels British at birth and grew up like everyone else who's born British. To ask her "where are you from" and expect she distinguish herself from the rest by saying where her parents or ancestors were from is just by itself tells Lady SH didn't see her as British as everyone else and hardly recognise the descendants from first generation of immigrants have the right to feel they are home in this country. If she has had any respectful intention behind, honestly, would you ask "Where are YOU PEOPLE from?" In front of anyone? If someone is obvious not comfortable with the topic by not engaging, would you go on and on claiming you want to conquer the "challenge" by pressing again and again?

My husband recalled once when he was doing haircut in Paris. The salon owner told him that he was thinking of leaving France. He's born in France and lived in France all his life. But it seemed not enough to make the white French see him as a genuine French. He's always be asked where he's from and been labelled as Algerian instead of French French. I don't know if you can ever understand the impact to these people who can't feel they are home and they belong to this country as anyone else who's born here and have to disclose "where they truly from" when asked. If that's not racism, then what is?

This is just no excuse with how she did it. No excuse. And moving some's hair to see the name tag? What kind of entitlement allowed that? I probably don't live in the same planet as those who think it's ok.

All this just shows why a number of people have as little to do with minorities as possible.

You don't know if they will turn out to be militant or looking for a reason to be "offended". Just easier not to bother. I'm happy, they're happy. Well, probably not - but what can I do about that?

Nah sorry but you're being overly sensitive. I wasn't referring to you at all.

Are you seriously calling me a liar? Unfortunately it's your own interpretation.

Voice what though? Do you have any examples specifically where people have been shut down? This is the internet and unless MN steps in, you can't get shut down, just an exchange of POV's right?

So why is it you can't win IRL?

Regards to this woman's charity. Again, she's under no obligation to do anything for anyone, in the same way organisations often have initiatives targeted at minorities or other marginalised groups. If you're genuinely so interested why aren't you setting up anything? In fact what are you doing to help anyone? Or are you just interested in complaining?

You say you want to support but you're doing this by criticising someone's charity and their choice to use different names? Time to check yourself I'd say as you definitely can't win with that sort of attitude.

I am very happy for you not to talk to me at all if you can't do so without being racist

Cool.

That's the thing. There are thousands of people we can both be friends with, so makes sense for us both to pick the most obviously compatible.

That's what I do. Rather than tell people how to behave and act and talk. That must get exhausting, but I think some people like it.

I think you ilovecakes having as little to do with ‘minorities’ is a relief for us.

I genuinely feel sorry for any ‘minorities’ that you may come across and I hope stay protected from us ‘militants’ in Royston Vasey your village.

Nothing. I'm not a Uk national, people ask me where 'I'm from', and I tell them if they have time for my story. If Dp and I have children they'll be dual nationality.
I'll quite happily tell them our story, heritage, etc.
The definitions of racism have expanded now, and such a broad term is mainly for others to use as a soapbox or leverage.

Thank you, @Ohlife2020
It didn't feel wrong to me to ask but when I heard the collective intake of breath, oh dear, faux pas time.. :-(
I pretended I didn't hear it is the lady was so chatty & we had a lovely conversation about how things had changed in said country since the 40's/ 50's..
Yes, obviously if I'd felt I'd offended her, of course I would have changed the subject, but then we would have both missed out.. oh dear, walking on eggshells.. I really hope I come across as friendly & interested, in all people, all colours, religions, & the dreaded word 'classes' - it's how I learn! :-)

Ngozi Fulani didn't choose to subject to racism. Lady SH chose to be racist to her.

I know right.

If I were to walk around with a camera on my head and inadvertently film people being racist to me, how am I the problem?

Oh, so now it's coming out. You're just looking for an excuse to make NF the problem and not the racism she was subjected to. That's a new one.

You do realise that if LH wasn't an idiot, there wouldn't be a story? I'm assuming NF spoke to lots of people at that event but we've not heard any such reports of inappropriate behaviour. I guess we can conclude that she didn't record anyone else being racist.

Where did you see that she'd recorded the exchange? If she didn't it's amazing how just yesterday people were saying, "oh that's just her version of events". Now you're claiming it was recorded and conclusive, she's outrageous for providing evidence. You couldn't make it up.

I'm curious, how are you speaking like fact that she carried a recording device into the Palace? Evidence based or your take from the news speculative source? There's not enough security screening for people going into the palace? I found if you believe it so easily it's actually your willful choice, but doesn't equal to facts to be quoted and judged upon. @ReformedWaywardTeen

Of course it does. Every country in the world has issues with racism, including the countries who we are racist to. Its human nature unfortunately.

However most people aren't racist and to label a 'country' as racist as though we were one homogenous mass, is naive

All we can do is continue to work towards greater acceptance and eliminating it.

Lady Hussey apparently asked the same question of Nazir Afsal who was at the same function. Quite frankly she is ignorant of modern manners, because this is simply bad manners, so she needed to go. She went immediately and the other elderly courtiers also need thinning out.
FWIW. He said Wales

"Banter" innit!

Until you're at the receiving end of the abuse, which is what it is!

But it's not just race, it also applies to religion, being overweight, even being a natural red head, or basically absolutely anything that makes you different!

When Lady Susan met Prince Phillip.😂😂😂
twitter.com/AdamRutherford/status/1598261063270780929

I've just googled and can't find any legitimate source (other than random Twitter accusations) that the conversation was recorded.

Sorry @ReformedWaywardTeen , but we're going to have to see some hard evidence here.

Agree. It's probably becoming an unwelcome taboo for some people who didn't perceive this as a big enough problem. But it's important to create an environment to allow people call out racism but feel safe. If most of the society brush it away as "taking things too serious" and make the victim appear causing trouble, how can the society ever improve?

A small example is that no-one challenged the assertion that only black and brown people are ever asked 'but where are you really from? That would never happen to a white person.

Try having a Scottish name and red hair.

I don't angrily reply "I'm ENGLISH. How dare you!"

Might not be a popular view, & tbh I haven't read any acticles, so put me right by all means, but I did feel a teensy bit of sympathy for Lady H in that she's an old lady & maybe just doesn't 'get' how things are.. ?

She asked her about 6 times though. Maybe dementia?