Page 16 | Does the UK have a racism problem?

JolllyBee · 2022-11-30T20:43:39+00:00

In just the last 24 hours alone we've had in the news: *Prince William’s godmother quits palace over comments to black charity boss* *Meghan Markle had several 'disgusting' and credible threats to her life, Met cop reveals* *Various people's census rants going viral and getting a scary amount of support* *James McAvoy shocked by hometown racism in Glasgow after castmates abused on street* and a few days prior: *London Fire Brigade houses a toxic culture of bullying, racism and misogyny, inquiry finds*

Ohlife2020 · 02/12/2022 22:34

pompei8309 · 02/12/2022 22:19

Ohlife2020- does your husband goes as shady and defensive as this lady when he’s asked where is from ? or he answers I’m a eg. british citizen but my family is originally from xyz country depending on his circumstances? people tend to ask where you from either because of the colour of the skin or accent is a simple question that seem to be insulting everyone these days , it could be easily solved with an answer , that’s all

The difference is: most of the curious
people know where to stop insisting to know another person's business and remains respectful. Really, nobody has to tell a stranger about where his or her ancestors are from. Unless after a bit bonding and trust formed and feeling comfortable to share. 😂

Ohlife2020 · 02/12/2022 22:35

So you are on the same page with SH then. I guess she didn't have Alzheimer's, just the mentality.

Mezmer · 02/12/2022 22:41

Am so sick of this naval gazing over race. At some point we have to move on and start worrying about other stuff over than what someone with alleged ‘privilege’ has said to someone else. Unless there’s actual violence or incitement to cause violence involved then we have to just rub along. We’re making things worse by turning everything into a racist issue. It’s getting extremely like mind and thought control and we definitely don’t want to go down that route. Cultural tensions have never been worse since obsessing about skin colour. I never used to notice or care what race someone is. Everyone was the same to me with no exceptions. Now I, like everyone else, panics in case they say say or look at someone wrong in case I cause offence. How is this good? How is this progress? We are all equal in the eyes of the law in the Uk. We are not a racist country. Go anywhere else in the world and you’ll see racism. You just have to hop over the channel.

Lunar270 · 02/12/2022 22:53

Now I, like everyone else, panics in case they say say or look at someone wrong in case I cause offence.

No, it's really just you and a minority of other inept individuals. The rest of us get on fine.

808Kate1 · 02/12/2022 22:55

Mezmer · 02/12/2022 22:41

Am so sick of this naval gazing over race. At some point we have to move on and start worrying about other stuff over than what someone with alleged ‘privilege’ has said to someone else. Unless there’s actual violence or incitement to cause violence involved then we have to just rub along. We’re making things worse by turning everything into a racist issue. It’s getting extremely like mind and thought control and we definitely don’t want to go down that route. Cultural tensions have never been worse since obsessing about skin colour. I never used to notice or care what race someone is. Everyone was the same to me with no exceptions. Now I, like everyone else, panics in case they say say or look at someone wrong in case I cause offence. How is this good? How is this progress? We are all equal in the eyes of the law in the Uk. We are not a racist country. Go anywhere else in the world and you’ll see racism. You just have to hop over the channel.

We are all equal in the eyes of the law in the Uk.

It's a crowded field of race apologism throughout your post but bloody hell mate, did you miss this memo:

www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/20191821.thames-valley-figures-show-black-people-3x-likely-get-arrested-white-people/

Or this one: www.manchester.ac.uk/discover/news/new-report-uncovers-institutional-racism-in-the-justice-system/

Sorry you panic so much in case you cause offence (hugs) - how dare those pesky victims of racism make you feel like that!

fannyfartlet · 02/12/2022 23:00

Absolutely it's rife

Ohlife2020 · 02/12/2022 23:11

And this; news.sky.com/story/london-fire-brigade-is-institutionally-misogynist-and-racist-independent-review-finds-12755585

It's a lot easy for people who haven't gone through anything like this or will never go through this to say "move on" and "the taboos are just suffocating and unhealthy". But for someone who actually see this as part of their life, the reality is less forgiving.

"In another incident, a Muslim had bacon and sausages put in his coat pockets and a terrorist hotline sign posted on his locker."

Popgoestheweaselagain · 03/12/2022 08:02

Trainbear · 02/12/2022 20:16

Is a charity solely for afrocarribean women victims of domestic violence not a teensyweensy discriminatory? Or racism against Asian, south Asian or White women? Or is DV suffered by some individual races different to that suffered by others?

I don't think it is in itself. Although a woman from mixed heritage claims to have been treated very badly by the charity - told she wasn't welcome there because of her 'white privilege'. Don't know if this true or just a diversion tactic.

IncompleteSenten · 03/12/2022 08:05

Yes.
A huge one.
And refusing to see it is part of it.
Some people think nothing less than the KKK can possibly be racism. 🙄

Popgoestheweaselagain · 03/12/2022 08:18

Lunar270 · 02/12/2022 22:53

Now I, like everyone else, panics in case they say say or look at someone wrong in case I cause offence.

No, it's really just you and a minority of other inept individuals. The rest of us get on fine.

Thing is, I've found you can upset someone just by existing. I was sitting behind someone on the bus. As she was getting up to get off sge turnef to me and said 'Are you racist!' 'Erm, no ...' 'But you were sniffing at me' 'Oh, gosh, no! I have hayfever! - glad we cleared that up !'

I think some people have been so affected by racism that they just can't cope with being around white people. They don't feel safe. It was really weird to me, because, to me, she was just another person on the bus.

ReformedWaywardTeen · 03/12/2022 10:02

Trainbear · 02/12/2022 20:16

Is a charity solely for afrocarribean women victims of domestic violence not a teensyweensy discriminatory? Or racism against Asian, south Asian or White women? Or is DV suffered by some individual races different to that suffered by others?

Exactly.

Why not have a broader remit and actually, invite men who can be victims too as they often get forgotten and are even more embarrassed to come forward.

Had anyone seen the suggestion that the lady involved is not actually quite being honest about her name? It's suggested that the name she uses and has used on TV and at the palace is not her name at all. It's a name she has chosen to use for whatever cause or reason.

Very curious.

MoreSleepPleasee · 03/12/2022 10:14

Yanbu. The amount of times I've pulled people up on stuff and been told to 'chill, it's just a joke'. It's not funny.

MoreSleepPleasee · 03/12/2022 10:18

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 01/12/2022 17:19

Of course it does, but so does everywhere else - and worse in some cases. Anyone who thinks other European countries (just for starters) don’t have as bad, or an even worse problem with racism, is extremely naive.

Oh that's OK then. If it is worse elsewhere that's fine. We're OK.

Lunar270 · 03/12/2022 10:39

Popgoestheweaselagain · 03/12/2022 08:18

Thing is, I've found you can upset someone just by existing. I was sitting behind someone on the bus. As she was getting up to get off sge turnef to me and said 'Are you racist!' 'Erm, no ...' 'But you were sniffing at me' 'Oh, gosh, no! I have hayfever! - glad we cleared that up !'

I think some people have been so affected by racism that they just can't cope with being around white people. They don't feel safe. It was really weird to me, because, to me, she was just another person on the bus.

Show quote history

Your bizarre anecdote is a bit irrelevant to my comment isn't it?

For the hard of thinking, I'm talking about the idiots who claim, "you can't say nuffink nowadays" because they're so inept that they can't find (or want) to find a conversational topic that doesn't highlight that someone is different.

It's quite a skill to combine, "I don't see colour" and "I wish they'd just fit in" with, "where are you from as you're not from round ere ain't ya".

BringbackSpringsteen · 03/12/2022 10:45

Popgoestheweaselagain · 03/12/2022 08:18

Thing is, I've found you can upset someone just by existing. I was sitting behind someone on the bus. As she was getting up to get off sge turnef to me and said 'Are you racist!' 'Erm, no ...' 'But you were sniffing at me' 'Oh, gosh, no! I have hayfever! - glad we cleared that up !'

I think some people have been so affected by racism that they just can't cope with being around white people. They don't feel safe. It was really weird to me, because, to me, she was just another person on the bus.

Show quote history

I was once walking in our local park when I could smell the most awful sewage/drain smell. I commented on it to my DH.

I then saw a mother and child walk quickly past us looking very upset.

I suddenly realised that they were Romany and thought I was talking about them.

I didn't think it was weird, I thought it was do depressing that she was so used to racism that she assumed it was about her.

Lunar270 · 03/12/2022 10:46

ReformedWaywardTeen · 03/12/2022 10:02

Exactly.

Why not have a broader remit and actually, invite men who can be victims too as they often get forgotten and are even more embarrassed to come forward.

Had anyone seen the suggestion that the lady involved is not actually quite being honest about her name? It's suggested that the name she uses and has used on TV and at the palace is not her name at all. It's a name she has chosen to use for whatever cause or reason.

Very curious.

Show quote history

The irony of course are the racists and apologists who constantly have to name change on MN

Very curious.

It must be quite sad for the apologists IRL as you can't really be an open apologist in the workplace etc. where more reasonable people reside. "What about the menz" doesn't really work outside of the internet so guess it must be cathartic to vent.

Hobbesmanc · 03/12/2022 10:49

There's still people all over social media. And indeed on this thread denying that the experience of a black woman at the palace was racist. Or in fact blaming Fulani herself. She's got an agenda apparently. She deliberately provoked Lady Susan. She was Gasp , wearing ethnic clothes.

Also she's being deceitful changing her name, she shouldn't have even been there, she didn't deserve recognition. Etc etc.

It's so wrong on so many levels

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 03/12/2022 10:50

@MoreSleepPleasee , please don’t put words into my mouth. I certainly didn’t say or mean that it’s OK.

ReformedWaywardTeen · 03/12/2022 11:00

Lunar270 · 03/12/2022 10:46

The irony of course are the racists and apologists who constantly have to name change on MN

Very curious.

It must be quite sad for the apologists IRL as you can't really be an open apologist in the workplace etc. where more reasonable people reside. "What about the menz" doesn't really work outside of the internet so guess it must be cathartic to vent.

Show quote history

No name change here.

Try again

It was a valid query. Why exclude others and also men? Men do suffer DV. We don't know exact numbers because men are far less likely to report it for fear of being called a liar or the suggestion it's more likely to be them that is the guilty party. It's the embarrassment factor too of a male coming forward.

To exclude a huge swathe of people makes no sense whatsoever. Surely, the more people who can access help, the more donations they will successfully attract? It widens the issue.

Posts like yours are exactly why many fear saying a word because we are damned of we do and we are damned if we don't. If we voice that we fear being called racist, we are racist. If we point out racism towards other races we are told it's not racism, it's different. If we are silent, this is our of order too.

If we voice that we don't care what someone's heritage is, if they're a good person then great, that is racist and denying race and heritage. If we mention we have a broad friendship group then we are racist again.

We simply cannot win.

Wiluli · 03/12/2022 11:24

ThreeLocusts · 30/11/2022 21:42

Alas, everywhere has a racism problem (speaking as a former resident of the UK and three other countries). What is scary is that the UK seems to be going backwards. All that immigrant-bashing, the suggestion that anybody allowed in has to be eternally grateful....

When I moved to the UK 25 years ago, it was miles ahead of my continental European home country in terms of treating non-white people as people rather than curios or problems. Honestly, it was way worse where I came from.

In the meantime, though, some other countries have had some success in normalising diversity, while the UK.... see above.

This I agree with every world . I also move to the U.K. 24 years ago and feel the exact same way . The U.K. is going backwards and it’s scary to see

Wiluli · 03/12/2022 11:29

808Kate1 · 01/12/2022 13:35

@Wiluli I think Glasgow is an interesting example actually - on the one hand as you say it has a very socially progressive outlook in terms of acceptance and positivity towards refugees, but that has to be balanced with the contradictory fact it's also a deeply bigoted - and racist - city.

I’m telling you what most from abroad experience here after moving from England ( there has been an exodus during brexit ) and 99% feels much safer in Scotland . If you choose to accept that it’s up to you , doesn’t stop it from being truth .

Lunar270 · 03/12/2022 11:38

ReformedWaywardTeen · 03/12/2022 11:00

No name change here.

Try again

It was a valid query. Why exclude others and also men? Men do suffer DV. We don't know exact numbers because men are far less likely to report it for fear of being called a liar or the suggestion it's more likely to be them that is the guilty party. It's the embarrassment factor too of a male coming forward.

To exclude a huge swathe of people makes no sense whatsoever. Surely, the more people who can access help, the more donations they will successfully attract? It widens the issue.

Posts like yours are exactly why many fear saying a word because we are damned of we do and we are damned if we don't. If we voice that we fear being called racist, we are racist. If we point out racism towards other races we are told it's not racism, it's different. If we are silent, this is our of order too.

If we voice that we don't care what someone's heritage is, if they're a good person then great, that is racist and denying race and heritage. If we mention we have a broad friendship group then we are racist again.

We simply cannot win.

Show quote history

I wasn't saying that you name changed specifically. Just pointing out a general irony because that's exactly what happens here. No need to be so sensitive. Can't say anything nowadays for fear of upsetting folk. Oh wait...

Speaking of which, what is it that you think you can't say anymore? You're doing pretty well at saying what you want on an anonymous internet forum? What specifically do you want to be able to say to minorities that you're genuinely afraid of?

That's some victim complex you have there. It's funny but I have a diverse range of friends and work with an even more diverse range. I'm in my 50's now and oddly enough I've negotiated my way through life just fine.

Anyway, men can set up their own charities if they wish as everyone is free to do what they want. I'm not black but have no issues if a black woman wishes to set up a charity to address a specific concern.

There's no valid query in your posts. The faux questioning of a name change. So what? People name change all the time. What's suspect about it, except for some strange notion of yours that seems to lead you to suspicion.

Popgoestheweaselagain · 03/12/2022 11:40

Lunar270 · 03/12/2022 10:39

Your bizarre anecdote is a bit irrelevant to my comment isn't it?

For the hard of thinking, I'm talking about the idiots who claim, "you can't say nuffink nowadays" because they're so inept that they can't find (or want) to find a conversational topic that doesn't highlight that someone is different.

It's quite a skill to combine, "I don't see colour" and "I wish they'd just fit in" with, "where are you from as you're not from round ere ain't ya".

Show quote history

I wasn't arguing with you, just adding another angle. Why do people object so much to this - like what you said is completely wrong, just because I think it might be more complicated. Yes, of course, I hope most of us can do better than embarassing old people who try to jolly people along by asking lots of inappropriate questions and touching their hair like their a child, but I sometimes feel like there's more in the dynamic than meets the eye.

Perhaps what I described was unusual, but what worries me is was the unusual thing that the woman actually asked me straight out, rather than just going away thinking that I was sniffing at her? Do people who live in my area experience this kind of stuff all the time and I just don't know about it? That's the problem with covert racism - I don't see it. It's like there's all these hidden land mines you might step on.

Yes, what happened did seem a bit bizarre to me, but do you think I'm making it up?

808Kate1 · 03/12/2022 11:48

@Wiluli I'm perfectly well versed on the extent of bigotry and racism in Glasgow so am able to form my own opinion thanks very much. If you choose to close your eyes to it (because you might not have experienced it) then so be it.

mamabear715 · 03/12/2022 11:57

Ok, my story, FWIW.. school meeting, asked a chinese lady where she was from - yes, just like Lady Susan. Sharp intake of breath from the rest of the (white, middle class) room. Lady wasn't bothered at all & told me her heritage, which happened to be where a family member grew up, and we had a lovely chat.

I didn't mean anything by it, am just naturally interested in people.. should I have held my tongue, & missed out on our conversation?
I hate the feeling that I have to watch everything I say. :-(
I love people, am genuinely interested & feel that if we all stay quiet for fear of causing offence, it's pretty isolating way to be. Am I wrong?