Does the UK have a racism problem?

[JolllyBee]

In just the last 24 hours alone we've had in the news:

Prince William’s godmother quits palace over comments to black charity boss

Meghan Markle had several 'disgusting' and credible threats to her life, Met cop reveals

Various people's census rants going viral and getting a scary amount of support

James McAvoy shocked by hometown racism in Glasgow after castmates abused on street

and a few days prior:

London Fire Brigade houses a toxic culture of bullying, racism and misogyny, inquiry finds

Racism exist in every corner of the globe.

Haven’t rtft but in answer to the op had a look around for anything and found this

www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/05/15/a-fascinating-map-of-the-worlds-most-and-least-racially-tolerant-countries/

• Anglo and Latin countries most tolerant. People in the survey were most likely to embrace a racially diverse neighbor in the United Kingdom and its Anglo former colonies (the United States, Canada, Australia and New Zealand) and in Latin America. The only real exceptions were oil-rich Venezuela, where income inequality sometimes breaks along racial lines, and the Dominican Republic, perhaps because of its adjacency to troubled Haiti. Scandinavian countries also scored high.

TBH, not really a question you can ask a largely white cohort!

In my 20s os so, I thought not, no we didn't have a racism problem - my friends weren't racist and I'd never seen any racism, so it was OK. And a lot of people still think that, and I get why.

But then, actually largely thanks so social media, I started listening to/reading the experiences of black people and I realised, yes, we do have an issue.
Yeah, we have equality laws and that's great, but they can't change people's attitudes necessarily. I think society runs on a lot of set narratives on what people are like and this still colours (no pun intended) so much of how people treat one another.

The cultural narrative says that men = straightforward, honest, strong, moral; women = complicated, crazy, manipulative, weak (physically and morally) and it says black people = strong, not as intelligent, more criminal, bad attitude. Of course most people don't literally believe these and don't think they believe these, but I fear they affect how we treat others, and we need to work really hard on erasing those damaging narratives.

Trust me, no one has any illusion that you care about ethnic minorities. Weird that you’re so gleeful about it. Get some hobbies

I'm not gleeful. You sound really frustrated though.

Where are you getting your cultural narrative from? I get a lot of my cultural narrative from TV (not that into newspapers) and it says
men=lazy, vulgar, not very bright, a bit badly behaved if not criminal
women = hardworking, dependable, sensible
black people = bright, emotionally intelligent, moral, brave
White American woman/White women in British period drama = spoilt, selfish, bit of a princess.

Of course it is. Though I struggle to think of one that isn’t, one way or the other 🤷‍♀️

We are probably not perfect but in the study below we score well, along with a few other countries

There will never be a world free from racism. Ever. Britain will always have its share of hateful people. But that said , I think racism (or the kind of racism I suffered as a child) has very much decreased and UK as a whole are a very tolerant society, probably more tolerant than most parts of everywhere else in the world. It is a far rarer, newworthy and criminal occurance for someone to scream/spit/attack anyone because of their race, or know that there will be no repercussions for it. The levels of this occuring are no where near as prevalant as what they were 10/20/30 years ago, and society in general doesnt accept that sort of behaviour. I cant even get worked up about the recent incident. It was bad behaviour on both sides imo. The old lady could have worded what she was asking better and the other lady had an idea of what she was asking, she should have replied she was British, her parents were from Carribean. Ive been in the same position several times, and have found rather than being indignant about it, just talking to people develops better future relations.

Completely this. I understand that the othering of people is actually part of our make up. It doesn't mean we can't rationally decide to override this, because we feel it's in society's common good, through laws etc, but it's a process that takes time.

As someone with mixed ethnicities, understand the sense of not belonging completely to one group. I feel that if I were to be surrounded by people of my same mixed ethnic makeup I would feel "strengthened " and not so exposed or vulnerable, so understand the wishing to preserve a sense of belonging, that majority groups have and cling to.
Sometimes this sense can be partially overcome, by other ways of forming groups, class, education, life experience, but it's not as immediate as physical looks. I think that as our society becomes ever more intermingled, over the generations, other ways of grouping ourselves will become more important, but until that time, there will be a certain sense of underlying racism within the country.
Obviously every society will evolve at its own pace and not necessarily in the same way. I imagine that Japan will not be on the same trajectory as the Uk for instance .

Whether the UK has a problem with racism depends on your point of view.

Rishi is on record saying that he doesn’t think the Uk is a racist country.

It may be that he hasn’t experienced racism because he was from a wealthy background.

A poor British Asian person may have different experiences and therefore a different perspective.

Im a (relatively) poor scottish asian person. I dont think the UK is a racist country now.

This! 👏

I am white British and have been asked where I am from, on one occassion in Covent Garden, London, and the questioner was surprised when I replied, 'London'.
I assumed he normally spoke to tourists. This was some promotional thing outside one of the shops.
I have often been asked where I am from, especially in other parts of the UK, mainy I think because of regional accents.
I have sometimes asked someone where they are from - strong accent. My DH has had the tenerity to guess before now. (I think this was someone with a strong Somerset accent).
However, I will now re-consider this, as this could be considered rude.

People on here, twitter etc are just waving their racist flags with pride at this stage.
It's the disingenuous suggestion that Ngozi Fulani should have just said 'I'm from Hackney but my parents are from...' that gets me. Thanks to white privilege there has never been any suggestion in my life that I should answer that question with 'well I'm from Kent but my dad is from Lancashire and my mum is from Northumberland and I think we might have some Scottish and Welsh ancestors'. Because as a white person, that's not what I'm being asked when someone asks where I'm from. Even with a European-but-common-here name and a parent who has migrated to a European country I still don't get asked if I'm really from here.
It was a racist incident, that came from a representative of our head of state towards a guest at an event they hosted to celebrate said guest's achievements. No question. And the victim blaming, especially on a site like this that is mostly made up of women, is really disappointing. We rightly take offence at any suggestion that what we were wearing, whether we said no forcefully enough etc puts us at fault in cases of sexual assault and frankly we all need to afford people of colour that same level of support and respect when it comes to incidents of racism.

Ngozi was under no more obligation to start talking about where her parents, grandparents, great grandparents lived when chatting at an event than anyone else, but Susan Hussey for whatever reason felt entitled to know that information and not take the answer of Hackney as the correct answer it was.

@milveycrohn I assume you're being deliberately disingenuous rather than you don't know the difference between being asked where you're from and being interrogated because your answer of London / UK isn't accepted because of your skin colour.

Mumsnet has a racism problem let alone the UK.

Does the uk still have racist people - yes, but fewer than there used to be and constrained by the law. Does it have prejudiced black people who want to exaggerate - also yes. It's not abuse if someone is rude to you and you can get far too hung up on someone touching your hair.

I was raised to be non racist, to take parts in protest against racist behaviour. I employed black people when that was unusual and if they expressed gratitude told them it was unnecessary, they were there on merit. But modern woke racism hasnt just betrayed black Americans, it is betraying black Britons too.

@PetraBP
It may be that he hasn’t experienced racism because he was from a wealthy background.
A poor British Asian person may have different experiences and therefore a different perspective.

Exactly. Someone I used to work with was driven out of her home by racist neighbours, including having a brick through her window.

@PinkArt
It's the disingenuous suggestion that Ngozi Fulani should have just said 'I'm from Hackney but my parents are from...' that gets me. Thanks to white privilege there has never been any suggestion in my life that I should answer that question with 'well I'm from Kent but my dad is from Lancashire and my mum is from Northumberland and I think we might have some Scottish and Welsh ancestors'.

Exactly. Nobody asks me 'no where are you really from', because I'm white. They can't see my great grandparents were refugees, I'm not expected to explain my presence in this country.

There is no doubt the country is racist - not everyone, but enough. See about my colleague above, or another lovely woman I worked with in a previous job who was too frightened to wear a hijab. I have racist relatives, I've been at work events and had people from other organisations tell me all about their dislike of 'foreigners' coming here and taking all the jobs etc.

Of course it does, but sadly as does AIBU so that will impact the voting.

There is a reason BMN had to be set up.

It's not abuse if someone is rude to you and you can get far too hung up on someone touching your hair.

Actually find this odd - you say you were brought up to be non-racist and seem to suggest your employment of black people qualifies you as a non-racist (well done you), but here you are, quite confidently claiming that (and I'm assuming you mean black) people get "far too hung up on someone touching you hair". To me, a white person, that hair action is racist and derogatory, although I'm happy to be corrected on that (by a black person). I would also suggest that if someone is rude to you, based on your ethnicity - than that is the very definition of racial abuse, however explicit or subtle it is. You're minimising someone's negative experience.

I also find it absolutely bonkers that so many non-ethnic minority people decide for themselves what does and doesn't constitute racism against minority groups. (I realise people from minority ethnic groups themselves are guilty of this about other groups). If you don't have personal experience of being on the receiving end of racism (like the above mentioned hair-touching incident), then I'd rather hear the opinions of people who have actually experienced it, and whether or not they find it racist. Just saying you were brought up to be non-racist, or declaring you're an anti-racist doesn't mean jack shit really and in fact it's a qualifier folk use time and again, almost to excuse their...racism.

Minimising and/or going to great lengths to tell a forum why something isn't racist (when so many from that minority group say it is) is quite racist (and massively goady) in and of itself. It is rife on MN, and I can see this makes it a non-safe space for quite a lot of people (see @DivineHypertension comment about BMN).

Actually, I am quite surprised at her touching her hair. I would never move somebody's hair to see their badge at an event. She thinks she's being nice and friendly, but has condescending attitudes. What I don't like is that the whole household should have taken responsibility - just sacking this person and moving on is a cop out.

Does the uk still have racist people - yes, but fewer than there used to be and constrained by the law. Does it have prejudiced black people who want to exaggerate - also yes. It's not abuse if someone is rude to you and you can get far too hung up on someone touching your hair.

Agree. Something I noted though is how Camilla and POW were both castigated and called racist for supposedly avoiding touching POC. Lady H now also hauled over the coals for briefly touching the hair of a WOC. Hard to know what is considered the right thing to do really.

So we should treat ethnic minorities like they're no different from someone from Kent or Lancashire with some Welsh ancestry? How does that work alongside celebrating multicultural identities? When do you ask the question - but what is that identity? where does it come from? We don't ask people whose ancestors have always lived in Britain where they 'originally' come from, because they originally come from Britain - their nationality is the same as their cultural heritage.

I dont give a monkey's fart if someone chooses to tell me I'm a racist for thinking that this is a storm in a teacup.

Old aristocrats can be rude, regardless of your ethnicity. Ever listened to Prince Philip?

"British women cant cook" was 1996,

"It looks like a tart’s bedroom” – on seeing plans for the Duke and Duchess of York’s house at Sunninghill Park in 1988.

“Yak, yak, yak; come on, get a move on” – shouted from the deck of the Royal Yacht Britannia in Belize in 1994 to the Queen who was chatting to her hosts on the quayside.

“How do you keep the natives off the booze long enough to get them through the test?” – to a driving instructor in Oban, Scotland, during a 1995 walkabout.

Plenty of similar such comments addressed to white people - and a fair number to other ethnic groups, they got a lot more publicity though.

The problem here is that the young woman claimed to not feel confident to say "Did you mean to be so rude" or just to walk off. Woke racism feeds that lack of confidence, it is infantilising.

I found people like you will never understand what IS racism and you are incapable to perceive it. Like the FIFA boss saying he can relate because he got bullied on school because he had red hair.

There is sense of superiority in your tone and that's exactly why it is beyond rude for someone to move the other person's hair to see the name tag. Entitlement? The sense of superiority, that is.