Page 20 | Racism in the Royal Family

StoneofDestiny · 2022-11-30T19:06:10+00:00

Susan Hussey has resigned. Philip was coming out with similar comments in public all his life, yet there was no move to get rid of him. AIBU to think this is more royal hypocrisy?

notwavingbutdrowning1 · 01/12/2022 08:41

Let’s just consider a parallel situation:

A young white woman goes to an event at the palace, where an elderly male retainer directs a series of inappropriate comments at her. Later the woman recounts her experience on Twitter. The response is

she should have tried to make him feel comfortable;
he was old, so it wasn’t meant to be harassment - why on earth is she taking offence?
it was because of what she was wearing;
Where was his side of events? Why should we believe her? Where’s the proof that it even happened?
she’s an attention seeker. She’s done this to further her career;
it’s boring.

Not pretty, is it? So don’t do it to someone experiencing racial harassment.

JustSouthofSaltzburg · 01/12/2022 08:41

This is really difficult one for me.

The transcript is appalling. Taken at face value it is clearly racist - if the lady had been white her first answer would have been accepted. It was because she was black that the questioner persisted.

There are other aspects to consider though. What was the intention? The lady was clearly dressed to represent and honour her heritage. So this does invite questions. At events where men come in kilts, it would be normal to ask them about their heritage - it is a conversation starter (to understand how they identify with their chosen dress).

What would the line of questioning been to a white lady wearing African dress? We will never know.

If you asked a man at a party wearing a kilt where he was from and he said 'Hackney' I think a lot of people would say 'no, but where are you really from, where is your family from?' - or else why would he be wearing a kilt.

I understand the difference in that people of colour deal constantly with everyday racism. Fulani was a minority in the room and this questioning drew attention and focussed on that. Any person in their right mind would know that it is not appropriate to pursue this line of questioning.

I do feel sad though for Lady SH, I am not sure this was intentional, just extremely clumsy and out of touch.

thehorsehasnowbolted · 01/12/2022 08:43

This was her trying to make me renounce my British citizenship

What? Really?

notwavingbutdrowning1 · 01/12/2022 08:43

Oh ffs. Kilts again 😡

Jammy62 · 01/12/2022 08:43

@Televivi iv never had anyone suggest that my asking was a problem. Quite the opposite infact, people seem more than happy to talk quite openly. I also think its quite rude not to ask. Its part of that person and i was brought up to take an interest in others and try and learn from them. How can you do that if you are not allowed to ask anyone anything anymore?! If someone turned up to an event i was at in a traditional style of dress i would think its reasonable to assume they were open to discussing their heritage. My DH often wears a kilt to events, and even in London people will stop him to ask for photos etc and what its like in Scotland. Never once has DH considered this a slight against him. He knows fine well that if he wore a suit, no one would batt an eyelid and in Scotland, wearing a kilt would put him in with the majority. If you choose to wear traditional dress else where, it will attract attention.

thehorsehasnowbolted · 01/12/2022 08:44

It's interesting how it's widely believed that victims of violence sometimes can become violent themselves and those who are bullied can start bullying others

SerendipityJane · 01/12/2022 08:45

Of course a better comment might have been "that's an interesting name, tell me more about it.".

thehorsehasnowbolted · 01/12/2022 08:53

it went on for 5 minutes!

Someone must be an extremely slow speaker if that 6-line Twitter exchange took 5 minutes

WhatNapkinRing · 01/12/2022 08:53

I’m mixed race, I have had a lifetime of people wondering where my heritage lies because it isn’t obvious.

I see it as rude but not automatically racist to be asked about your heritage. I have experienced the being abused in the street kind of racism that is frightening.

Culturally I am a mixture of two so some of my norms are most definitely not British though I speak with a RP English accent.

What I get annoyed with is people telling me why I should be offended, I will decide what offends me.

Televivi · 01/12/2022 08:54

Jammy62 · 01/12/2022 08:43

@Televivi iv never had anyone suggest that my asking was a problem. Quite the opposite infact, people seem more than happy to talk quite openly. I also think its quite rude not to ask. Its part of that person and i was brought up to take an interest in others and try and learn from them. How can you do that if you are not allowed to ask anyone anything anymore?! If someone turned up to an event i was at in a traditional style of dress i would think its reasonable to assume they were open to discussing their heritage. My DH often wears a kilt to events, and even in London people will stop him to ask for photos etc and what its like in Scotland. Never once has DH considered this a slight against him. He knows fine well that if he wore a suit, no one would batt an eyelid and in Scotland, wearing a kilt would put him in with the majority. If you choose to wear traditional dress else where, it will attract attention.

You are not getting it and your silly comment
How can you do that if you are not allowed to ask anyone anything anymore?!
makes me think that you are on the wind up. You can ask many discreet and socially acceptable questions that relate to the context you both share. Please remember @Jammy62 you will not be the only 'curious' ignorant person to ask them about where are they really from, just give it a rest and satisfy your inappropriate curiosity by reading books and stope demanding people share their personal histories with you. Give it a rest already.

Televivi · 01/12/2022 08:55

*stop

Jammy62 · 01/12/2022 08:56

@Televivi you are the one being rude here, not me.

Televivi · 01/12/2022 08:56

SerendipityJane · 01/12/2022 08:45

Of course a better comment might have been "that's an interesting name, tell me more about it.".

Not really

Lunar270 · 01/12/2022 08:56

What I get annoyed with is people telling me why I should be offended, I will decide what offends me.

Does anyone do that? I find different things offend different people but I don't think I've ever felt like some minorities are telling me why I should be offended.

JustSouthofSaltzburg · 01/12/2022 08:59

I think something white people need to really take on board (and I include myself in this) is that it is not what the intention of your question is or what you mean - you have to really consider how your question will be received. How it will make that person feel. It is not about you.

It is very different to ask a white person in a kilt where they are 'really from' as it is to ask a person of colour (in traditional dress) where they are 'really from'. Their life experience (having being subjected to racism is completely different).

I personally never ask anyone now 'where are you from', I ask 'where do you live'. For clothing, I probably wouldn't address it at all, unless the person themself brought it up.

It is a learning experience.

Lunar270 · 01/12/2022 09:01

@JustSouthofSaltzburg good post, thank you.

JustSouthofSaltzburg · 01/12/2022 09:05

And I do find if you ask someone 'where do you live' and they say 'Hackney' - if they want to elaborate they will. They would say, I live in Hackney now but I am from Manchester etc..

I live in London now but I am originally from/my family is from... etc.

If they don't elaborate don't persist. Could be any number of reasons they don't want to get into it.

thehorsehasnowbolted · 01/12/2022 09:06

I personally never ask anyone now 'where are you from', I ask 'where do you live'.

That will soon be banned too. Better to keep your mouth shut and keep on walking

Rosscameasdoody · 01/12/2022 09:16

CloverCoolCalm · 30/11/2022 23:56

Oh for goodness sake, were you there?

I think the papers have handled this badly. Leave the poor woman alone.
She not a publicity seeking person, unlike the complainant
She was probably making polite conversation with people she didn’t know, and has done this hundreds of times before, and they decided to take offence
Shes an older lady, who knows the state of her hearing, health.
And it’s all blown out of proportion.

Show quote history

Here’s the full conversation from Ms Fulani herself, as reported by the BBC and later verified by Mandu Reid, the head of the Women’s Equality Party. She was standing close enough to hear the full exchange and described it as making her feel increasingly uncomfortable as it progressed.

Lady SH: Where are you from?
Me: Sistah Space.
SH: No, where do you come from?
Me: We're based in Hackney.
SH: No, what part of Africa are you from?
Me: I don't know, they didn't leave any records.
SH: Well, you must know where you're from, I spent time in France. Where are you from?
Me: Here, the UK.
SH: No, but what nationality are you?
Me: I am born here and am British.
SH: No, but where do you really come from, where do your people come from?
Me: 'My people', lady, what is this?
SH: Oh I can see I am going to have a challenge getting you to say where you're from. When did you first come here?
Me: Lady! I am a British national, my parents came here in the 50s when...
SH: Oh, I knew we'd get there in the end, you're Caribbean!
Me: No lady, I am of African heritage, Caribbean descent and British nationality.
SH: Oh so you're from...

This is not ‘polite conversation’ and the smug comment from SH ‘Oh, I knew we’d get there in the end’ demonstrates that she’s massively entitled as well as a racist.

Morestrangethings · 01/12/2022 09:17

hattie43 · 30/11/2022 19:40

I wonder if Lady H assumed she was a foreign dignitary who had flown in for the event . She was wearing very traditional African clothes hence the where are you from conversation.

Ngozi Fulani was wearing a brown jumper like top with a leopard print skirt.

And it was not a conversation, it was bullying racism. You can not have read the conversation. I can’t link it, but the conversation is even in the Daily Mail. Easy to find.

thehorsehasnowbolted · 01/12/2022 09:21

and later verified by Mandu Reid, the head of the Women’s Equality Party

It's interesting how nobody actually impartial from the RF's side can verify what was said.

Rosscameasdoody · 01/12/2022 09:21

thehorsehasnowbolted · 01/12/2022 00:00

No, but other women were

Who are they? Who are the witnesses? Nobody was there from MN and still posters are happy to pile on an old woman because they have made up their minds about her intentions

Mandu Reid, head of the Womens’ Equality Party, standing nearby and heard the whole thing. Said it made her very uncomfortable.

thehorsehasnowbolted · 01/12/2022 09:23

Mandu Reid, head of the Womens’ Equality Party, standing nearby and heard the whole thing. Said it made her very uncomfortable.

It would have been helpful to have an account from someone who did not have a vested interest in this specific line of activism

Rosscameasdoody · 01/12/2022 09:25

ClaudineClare · 30/11/2022 23:11

It is nothing to do with her age. She is a bigot. There are plenty of people her age who would not behave in such a racist way.

Show quote history

And there are also plenty of people her age who do, because they come from a time when casual racism wasn’t called out. I’ve experienced it - and they’re usually the same kind of person who thinks nothing of marching up to someone parking in a blue badge space and demanding to know their disability.

phoenixrosehere · 01/12/2022 09:30

JustSouthofSaltzburg · 01/12/2022 08:41

This is really difficult one for me.

The transcript is appalling. Taken at face value it is clearly racist - if the lady had been white her first answer would have been accepted. It was because she was black that the questioner persisted.

There are other aspects to consider though. What was the intention? The lady was clearly dressed to represent and honour her heritage. So this does invite questions. At events where men come in kilts, it would be normal to ask them about their heritage - it is a conversation starter (to understand how they identify with their chosen dress).

What would the line of questioning been to a white lady wearing African dress? We will never know.

If you asked a man at a party wearing a kilt where he was from and he said 'Hackney' I think a lot of people would say 'no, but where are you really from, where is your family from?' - or else why would he be wearing a kilt.

I understand the difference in that people of colour deal constantly with everyday racism. Fulani was a minority in the room and this questioning drew attention and focussed on that. Any person in their right mind would know that it is not appropriate to pursue this line of questioning.

I do feel sad though for Lady SH, I am not sure this was intentional, just extremely clumsy and out of touch.

The intention?

From reading the transcript, Lady SH refused to accept the woman’s answer. Doesn’t matter what her intention was when it became an interrogation and seemingly trying to catch the woman out in a lie. All she had to do was accept the answer that the woman was British-born. Nothing else need to have been said.

I always wonder how many years does a person’s family have to live in a country before they’re considered from there because obviously when it comes to non-white people in the UK they have to have a specific number of generations otherwise they’re not British enough.