To ask you to rethink telling your children they're being watched 24/7 by Santa's spies?

[Algor1thm]

If the elves come to your house just to mess around and have a laugh with no reporting back on behaviour to Santa, I'm not talking to you.

If you've got Elf CCTV cameras or are sending little notes from Santa with spying updates, I am.

It's just awful. Imagine if you genuinely believed your boss was spying on you 24/7 in your own home for a month every year and was going to deduct your pay if you behaved in an age-appropriate way.

Absolutely, but "good" is so subjective really and that's where I think it can just be used in ways that aren't fun to the kids and can be damaging. Obviously most parents have great intentions but there are many who use it as a way to try to enforce behaviour and don't realise the damage that can do. Definitely not saying a house should be a free for all but it's unrealistic to expect a child to behave exactly how you might want for a whole month, and the fear of their Christmas being ruined can cause a lot of anxiety. It's definitely got a place but I just don't think it works if it's so black and white.

So Christmas is stressful now for children is it? Ffs no wonder so many young people have no resilience. My dc are older and we didn't do any of the elf or 'security cameras' bullshit, but most parents can decide for themselves what is best for their dc, and they don't need do gooders on here calling for a ban on perfectly innocent stuff that other parents want to do with their children.

@healthadvice123 I don't see how any of that relates to my post, did you mean to tag me?

Of course you tell a child no, enforce boundaries, explain when they are acting inappropriately and guide them to how they should behave instead. That doesn't make the child naughty.

The child running round the restaurant in your scenario might be hungry or overwhelmed or just not had their cup filled by their parents and needs some attention. The child isn't naughty but the parent does need to put the effort in to address whatever need the child has and also to teach that child what behaviour is acceptable.

None of that is lazy parenting in my book. Hard work in fact. The easier option would be 'santa is watching'.

Get a grip. Our kids love it! Pandering and worrying about traumatising your child with an elf?! No wonder lots of young people can’t cope with anything!

I don't know about the elf/surveillance thing but Santa was a very effective bargaining chip when I was a kid. I survived, had amazing Christmases, and am continuing it with my kids.

Didn't know this was a thing. Why would anyone think this was an ok thing to do?

🤣🤣🤣

@sittingonacornflake so no child is ever just playing up , your pandering always looking for a reason and they won't always have that all their lifes so that is setting them up to fail
Again stop judging thats nit a nice trait in a person either so people need to get off their high horse as I bet at least one person will have seen you parent and thought you handled it badly

I think people can read their own kids...2 mine would have been terrified at the thought of an elf moving things round in their house, and we always had to have santa leave the stockings in the porch as the thought of a strange man coming into their house was too much for them but they have autism and struggled with the flexibility of thought required. One was absolutely fine with that side of things but got very upset at the thought of a naughty/nice list and reporting to santa so that didn't happen either !

No you can't so don't you even dare go there.

How uneducated you must be to think that the only way we can communicate is orally.

As I said, you do you and stop preaching to others about how to raise their children.

Walk a mile in someones shoes and all that.....

100% agree with this post. I didn’t even know that people went as far as threatening their kids with elf spies. Sounds nuts to me.

But I think the whole general idea of ‘good’ kids getting lots of presents and ‘bad’ kids not getting presents to be unpalatable and damaging.

How does this make kids who don’t get many presents feel? There are far better ways to get kids to behave.

Did I say you couldn't communicate with him?!

@YellowTreeHouse nope never had an elf etc and mine are grown up teens , all good and def bit traumatised and talk of xmas with fondness and fun we had
So im good but im not the one telling others how they should all parent , thinking my way is the only way and everyone else is wrong.
Being judgemental is not a nice trait either

@Flapjackquack and there is such a thing as being judgemental twats and assuming your are better than others and your way is the only way
My kids are fine , we never had elves and such and i only occasionally would of said oh quick santa is watching or similar but I don't judge others who use its more
Mine didn't even believe in him for that long
The difference is I didn't sit their judging others

@healthadvice123 but there IS always a reason. They don't just wake up and go 'you know what, I'm gunna act like a shit today, just for fun'. It doesn't make behaviour ok or acceptable but it doesn't make a child naughty. Surely our job is to find out what is causing the behaviour and help our children?

I'm guilty of it now - I'll snap at my loved ones when I'm overly stressed at work and frazzled. I'm not being naughty, I'm just behaving in that way because I'm over whelmed / stressed. But snapping is also not ok and once I realise what I'm doing (I might realise on my own or someone might point out to be that I seem stressed) I can address it, apologise and act better. Children need more help than adults with this bit as they don't have the brain capacity or ability to regulate in the same way that we do.

@DrCoconut Christmas gifts should be unconditional
I completely agree - this is the entire message of Christmas, that we all mess stuff up but we are all worthy of an abundance of love. That's why made up cameras and threats that Santa won't come are very jarring to me, it feels like completely missing the point and the wonder of the festive season.

@healthadvice123 - this has obviously hit a nerve with you. Yes I do think telling your children be “good” because you will get presents is a bit of a naff message. I also think telling your kids a strange man can see your every move is creepy. It’s not like the Elf on the shelf couldn’t be done just as a fun, oh look the elf made a mess, without all the spying stuff. Father Christmas can just deliver a gift without the Santa cams or naughty/nice list. Whether there is lasting trauma or not, doesn’t mean it can’t be unpleasant in the short term. If you chose to parent like that, then fine, you think that’s the better way to do it. I don’t. Am I better than you? No. I am sure I do things you wouldn’t. The message after message defending yourself is overkill though.

We have fun, messing about elves. I hate the idea of creepy spies giving reports.

@sittingonacornflake so you get pulled up on it by someone , same as a kid is
I may of said to mine oh lets tidy up these toys and they have just not wanted to so a quick oh well santa will be please ds2 is tidying up toys may of made ds1 start helping , sometimes it may not of as well.
But I wouldn't be the parent sat their saying ok lets not worry you don't want to tidy up so we won't as that isn't setting them up well for life.
Room needed tidying to be safe for baby etc so its gets done
Or sometimes as a diversion to a tantrum I may of said oh is that an elve i can hear etc and took their mind of the tantrum
Same as I would use other distractions
You only have to look at some kids these days to see they have always had someone make up an excuse for them and not address their behaviour
All of us can have a day where we can just be an arsehole and need calling up on it and not excused because we are tired , stressed efc

@Flapjackquack stop tagging me then and I didn't do elve on a shelf stuff , wasn't really a thing
The tone of some on here though is looking down their noses and that pisses me off tbh.
People thinking they are so much a better parent telling others what they should or shouldn't do without knowing anything about that person.
Also not for you to tell me what I can post or not yet their you are.

Nothing the do with your post, or the thread, but just wanted to ask @ReneBumsWombats, who is Rene? and why specifically wombats? or is it anything small and furry?

Every time I see your username on a post it just gets me wondering.......

@healthadvice123 - I tagged you to reply to the message you tagged me in!! 🙄🙄

I hate it when parents say this. I've never needed to threaten my kids with made up bull shit. I just have the same clear boundaries all year round. I'm never really sure how lies and empty threats build trust and respect...well, they don't. I genuinely think national parenting classes would be a good idea when I hear/see how some people use discipline.
Sometimes I see kids faces when parents say this nonsense to them and could cry for them...bloody hell, who's good all the time?! Yet we threaten kids with no presents at all on Christmas morning cos they have a momentary tantrum. Weird, weird, weird.
And yes I may sound sanctimonious. But that's how I feel.

I have seen some shitty posts on Mumsnet in my time, but judging the parenting of this mother in this way given how utterly all consuming and exhausting it must be to care for her son with the disabilities described is just vile. I don’t have an elf (primarily because I can’t be arsed) but step back and think about what you’re saying.

elmo you sound like you’re doing an incredible job for your son. I hope he enjoys his elf this year. Ignore the twatty comments.

😂

He's not a real person! It's just an in-joke based on a story written online between three people in different countries while completely pissed during lockdown. He was one of the characters and he had many misadventures, poor guy.

I'm bored of it now though. I'll NC as soon as I think of something. ElfOnTheShelfIsWatchingYou, maybe.