to think the census data on religion should mean some changes to how we view the Church of England in this country

[cakeorwine]

ONS data on religion released today

For the first time in a census of England and Wales, less than half of the population (46.2%, 27.5 million people) described themselves as “Christian”, a 13.1 percentage point decrease from 59.3% (33.3 million) in 2011; despite this decrease, “Christian” remained the most common response to the religion question.

“No religion” was the second most common response, increasing by 12.0 percentage points to 37.2% (22.2 million) from 25.2% (14.1 million) in 2011.

You can find out about your area here

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/religion/bulletins/religionenglandandwales/census2021

An interesting map is available - you can zoom in to local areas
The number of Christians is falling. Still a high percentage but less than half the population of England and Wales say they are Christian.

Christianity could mean Catholicism, C of E and other Christian faiths.

So should this mean we look at 'the State Religion', having Bishops in the House of Lords and the link between the Monarch being the Head of the Church of England. Basically - look at distestablishing the Church of England from the State.

So you don’t want the* state and church to be intertwined. But you want the state to have the church land.

@Elphame ”I was absolutely delighted to see the new census results.”

I’m worried in case God gets angry.

1 Chronicles 21:1-16
7 God was very displeased with the census, and he punished Israel for it. 8Then David said to God, “I have sinned greatly by taking this census. Please forgive my guilt for doing this foolish thing.” 9Then the Lord spoke to Gad, David’s seer. This was the message: 10“Go and say to David, ‘This is what the Lord says: I will give you three choices. Choose one of these punishments, and I will inflict it on you.’”

11So Gad came to David and said, “These are the choices the Lord has given you. 12You may choose three years of famine, three months of destruction by the sword of your enemies, or three days of severe plague as the angel of the Lord brings devastation throughout the land of Israel. Decide what answer I should give the Lord who sent me.”

13“I’m in a desperate situation!” David replied to Gad. “But let me fall into the hands of the Lord, for his mercy is very great. Do not let me fall into human hands.”

14So the Lord sent a plague upon Israel, and 70,000 people died as a result. 15And God sent an angel to destroy Jerusalem. But just as the angel was preparing to destroy it, the Lord relented and said to the death angel, “Stop! That is enough!” At that moment the angel of the Lord was standing by the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite.

16David looked up and saw the angel of the Lord standing between heaven and earth with his sword drawn, reaching out over Jerusalem. So David and the leaders of Israel put on burlap to show their deep distress and fell face down on the ground.

I’m worried in case God gets angry.

😂

I wonder if that’s the idea? That the state will take church land and assets and then they will be turned into academies, etc with trustees and boards and before you know it, like our hospitals and schools, will be run down and easy to sell/buy off.

Is that the plan?

I think we should just leave it as it is as Christianity was the most common response and most of us are fairly happy with how things stand. Although if land is going spare may be we Catholics can get it back from the C or E - may be I am due massive reparations from past wrongs in the 1500s or something!!

@Xenia good point. Rightfully, the CofE stuff comes back to the RCC.

but a lot of the ideas are being pushed without the public realising who the benefactors of change would really be

This isn't true at all.

A civil ceremony is simply a wedding without the religious bits.

Everything else about it can be as overblown or as simple as people want.

🙄

Ignorance must be bliss.

If reparations are being made it should all go back to the pagans.

Well, Wales is even less religious and we don’t have academies so…….

The churches run/own a lot of academy trusts.

YANBU having a State Church is one of many anachronisms holding us back from being a proper grown-up nation.

YANBU. People who reckon our idea of morality comes from the Bible haven’t read it. Unless they’re on board with setting angry bears on cheeky kids.

Do you mean the ‘god-fearing’ bits?

Morals without fear of what happens if people are immoral risks immorality by default.

If morals are just a preference then the whole moral project falls. People are not inherently good (whatever that means).

There is more to gain for some people to be immoral than moral.

@HardRock I dunno I’ve managed to be moral and atheist my entire life I reckon it’s doable.

And who decides what is and what is not a “proper grown-up nation”? What does that even mean?

Religion doesn't come from God.

It comes from people, either by way of man-made religion (i.e. all of them) or by other means.

Besides which, if the only thing that is preventing you from murdering someone is fear of God then you aren't really very moral, are you.

*Morals don't come from God, obviously.

Says you. How modest.

But is it true?

@HardRock It is, thanks for asking 👍✨

So 9hrs instead of 6hrs when I worked in retail.

A shorter day on Sunday for a full days pay was the only good thing about having to work weekends, which was generally depressing, and a nightmare when there was a match on, especially if we were open late. I remember a drunk football fan trying on football shirts two sizes too small and loudly demanding to know if it made him look gay while I was the only member of staff on the department.

No.

That’s a very simplistic understanding as to why people commit awful crimes like that. Some are crimes of passion - and it’s how the person responds afterwards that reveals true morality. If they cover-up and think they’ll get away with it then that’s a whole lot worse than if they confess to the crime because of their guilt. And that guilt is sometimes driven by ideas about God knowing the truth.

Adultery is usually viewed as immoral too. But if a fear of god helps people resist temptation then surely that’s a good thing?

Morals only matter if there is a consequence.

If people think nothing will happen to them if they behave immorally then why does not being moral matter?

Morals without fear of what happens if people are immoral risks immorality by default.

Wow. No concept of being 'moral' because it's the right thing to do? The 'golden rule' is pretty ubiquitous across many belief systems including non theistic ones (I think Buddhism got in there before the Good Samaritan) .

And also, we have a well developed justice system and forensic science. Advantage they don't indulge in floods and plagues.

And who judged this truth?