To think I'd get my evenings back by now?

[BananaHammock23]

Posting here for traffic hoping someone can help or at least share some hopeful stories.

My 16mo DS has never been a good sleeper. We cosleep and I still breastfeed - I feel like this is probably contributing to the problem.

My problem is that I'd really like to get my evenings back. Even if just a stretch from 7-10pm so we could spend time together without worrying or even have friends over for dinner or go out for a few hours with my mum babysitting.

We have a pretty good 7-7 routine. We do bath, book and bed and he tends to go down pretty quickly on the boob. The problem is that he then wakes up every 20 minutes-ish until I go to bed. Then he wakes up every 3 hours (on a good night). We can have anything between 2-8 wake ups a night. He has one nap a day at around 11.30/12 for 1-2 hours. This doesn't seem to make much difference to the nights.

How can I get him sleeping through, even just for that first stretch? I'd love another baby and I can't even imagine how that'll happen until DS is at least sleeping a few hours.

I have a supportive partner who does try and do their share but it does tend to fall to me in the evenings because it's quicker for me to feed him back to sleep than it is for them to rock him.

Anyway I'm tried and feel like I have no time to myself at all. I'm desperate. Any advice?

That is outrageous I don't know how you cope. Even my 11 week old sleeps 10-6.30 with no wake ups. Stop feeding to sleep I think initially to see if that helps and stop Co sleeping.

We nightweaned at 16 months. DH did all the wakings for a week...went from about an hour of crying the first night to sleeping through by the end of the week. I still fed her to sleep and carried on doing so until she was 2.

How?

Night weaning definitely helped but it wasn’t until we stopped rocking/swaying/bouncing/shushing (all of which had stopped working anyway by this point, including cosleeping and even the odd night bottle in desperation) at 11 months and got baby from awake to asleep in cot that sleeping through happened. Partner did it the first three nights and I was amazed at how quickly she took to it, and with minimal crying (we used stay and support method). It has changed our lives.

We stay next to cot with a hand on her back until she falls asleep, then sneak out. And she sleeps through unless ill or teething.

It sounds like his bedtime might be too early and he's not tired enough. I breastfeed to sleep (same age) and cosleep and can leave baby alone or with my husband for the first 2-4 hours. But he goes to sleep at 8-8:30pm and has 2 naps during the day. When he went to sleep at 7, I had the same problem as you.
I might be wrong obviously, every baby is different, but I'd recommend trying later bedtime.

Breastfeeding to sleep is absolutely normal. You’ve not done anything wrong by doing it in the first place or continuing to do it now.
I do understand your need for some time in the evenings however. I’d recommend looking up Lindsay Hookway on instagram. She shares lots of free advice on how to gently wean baby from either breastfeeding to sleep or other sleep associations.
One of the things she suggests is habit stacking. Your baby’s current habit is feeding to sleep, could you introduce a teddy or another similar comfort? The idea would be to stack this habit on top of the current one for a while before removing it. So you’d give the teddy to hold while breastfeeding to sleep. Then, after some time, possibly a few weeks or a month, you can offer the teddy instead of a feed. That way you’re not removing the only comfort your baby knows and it shouldn’t be as distressing as going “cold turkey”.

The thing is OP you’ve already said it yourself - the feeding to sleep and the cosleeping is the problem. It’s not part of the problem-it is the problem.

How you progress from here is obviously up to you. But nothing will improve until you break the feed to sleep cycle and teach your DC to settle himself to sleep.

There are loads of gentle ways of sleep training but consistency is key and it will
only work if you are absolutely committed to making it work.

FWIW, all 3 of mine had unsettled sleep at this age - it’s a bloody awful age and toddlers are just relentless hard work. And that was despite the fact that I had them all self settling somewhere between 3 and 6m and stopped BF at 7m. But it was easier to get them back on track sleepwise because they had learnt to self settle previously and they weren’t reliant on feeding to be able to sleep.

It will get better if you are prepared for a few tough nights and if you are prepared to be consistent.

@MrNook I've fallen into the same habit! I can't be bothered traipsing up and down the stairs every 15 minutes so I just come to bed. I've done a lot of reading since he was born! 😂

I do think night weaning sounds like it could be our saving grace here. Makes total sense that he's not falling back to sleep independently because he has no idea how because the boob is always right there.

Stopping feeding to sleep might not work at all it hasn’t for me. My 21 month old hasn’t breast fed for about a month now and there’s no improvement to her sleep at all, getting her to sleep is a nightmare and getting her to stay asleep is just as difficult, we bed share and she’s still waking around 5 times a night, I’ve tried so many times to get her into her own bed I can count on 1 hand how many times she’s done a decent length in it (still with frequent wake ups) I think it’s just sometimes something we have to ride out with them unfortunately. Just know that it isn’t forever and one day we will miss all of these sleepy cuddles.

If you fell asleep in the garden and woke up in your own bed, you’d be highly discombobulated and would probably take ages to settle yourself. It’s the same for the baby who falls asleep at your breast and wakes in a cot or bed, which is why he needs you to settle again. Have you thought about stopping feeding him to sleep? You can start by cuddling him but gradually reducing the physical contact a small bit at a time until you can put him down awake. It’s hard and you need to be ready to go for it and really, really consistent, but it can be done. It’s lovely for you baby to fall asleep feeding but there comes a point where you need to help him break the habit. Good luck.

I actually reverted back to encouraging/planning my day to facilitate two naps and now have my evenings. I breastfeed to sleep too and babe falls asleep in my bed then I transfer. Has only just now at 17m started doing stretches of sleep (usually 8-11 and then 11.30-4/5) then hourly wakes again and I am so relieved! I haven't done any sleep training at all. She's just got their herself.

@ChildcareIsBroken that's interesting, I might try and shift bedtime back by half an hour and see if there's any improvement. 8.30pm feels so late for bedtime though. I'm so tired I want to be in bed at 9 so I wouldn't have much of an evening anyway! Mind you, I might not be as tired if he was sleeping!

@Pjsandhotchoc thanks, I'll look into this

@Bows74 that's my worst fear! Getting him off the boob and still seeing no improvement. Hope you get some sleep soon!

@BananaHammock23 @LookingForANewJob2023

Ok, so DD is nearly 5 now, so it’s a while ago but I’ll tell you what we did to the best of my memory.

I was a wreck because of sleep deprivation, she woke every hour for a long time. So we got a sleep consultant because frankly, I couldn’t see the wood from the trees!

Essentially, this is what we did…

New bedtime routine. Bath, feed, book, sleepy time. It’s absolutely fine to still have a before bed feed, it’s crucial that it’s not right before sleep and if possible, not in their bedroom or where they sleep.

Then, just say ‘it’s sleepy time now darling’, or whatever you want to say, light off and then I stayed with her until she fell asleep.

I actually started at nap time, it took 45 mins of screaming until she eventually settled herself and went to sleep. I found it so so hard, but I stayed with her and offered comfort- just not a feed. She was furious and very upset but it worked and she fell asleep.

That night it took 30 mins of crying before she fell asleep, again I stayed with her. The next day it was much less crying. Within 3 nights there were no tears and she settled herself quickly and happily, I stayed in the room until she fell asleep.

Immediately the wakes improved. To fully night wean I did it gradually over a week. The first night i decided I wouldn’t feed before 1am, she woke just after that. Quick feed- do not let them fall asleep, then back into bed. Then I wouldn’t feed again before 5am, if she woke I wouldn’t feed before that, would settle her by sitting with her. That worked really well, then I moved to 1 feed, then when down to 1, I wouldn’t feed before 4am and then reduced the time of the feed.

She genuinely was feeding hourly before I tried to make changes, I was so shocked that it actually worked and how quickly it did.

I would say wait until they are feeling ok, then steel yourself and go for it. Prepare yourself for a tough week and persevere. It does work.

Good luck!

Looks like you’ve already had a lot of good advice here @BananaHammock23 . Hopefully things improve for you 🤞🏼

Completely irrelevant to your post but I’m just curious - to all those that still night feed, how does it work with teeth brushing? 🤔😬 Is it different with breastfeeding? I only BF for 6 months due to my own health issue and then moved to FF. I know the advice was to get rid of bottles and formula by 12 months and to brush 30 mins after any food/milk to prevent damage to teeth. Does feeding lots overnight but affect the teeth?

Just to give a different experience - DC3 is 17 months and a similarly awful sleeper. I haven't night weaned so far, as DC 1 & 2 were both just as bad, I was told by Mumsnet and everyone else that the feeding was the problem, so I stopped it at night - no difference at all in the waking, except I was left trying to get them back to sleep without feeding, which took much longer. They both gradually got better over time, so I hope DC3 will too, but at present I'm keeping feeding as a quick feed and we're both back to sleep within a few minutes.

Some babies sleep train themselves! My youngest slept really well from birth, my oldest didn't. In the end I sleep trained him, bath, feed, into his cot. I was totally knackered and sat at the top of the stairs while he whinged. After about 5 minutes I got up went to his bedroom to find him fast asleep. He slept through the night for the first time that night. If you feel that you can't do sleep training yourself tell your husband that he is doing it. He does not pick up the baby, he can pat a couple of times on the back to soothe but no fussing. It sounds horrible but I have found that it works. My youngest had a blip at 6 months and I did it again, he has slept well since and is an adult now. Knackered parents aren't able to function well.

Bottles damage teeth (formula or breastmilk), but breastfeeding doesn't. It is to do with how the milk enters baby's mouth. Also breastmilk contains things that help with teeth hygiene (but in a bottle that would be cancelled out by negative effect of bottles).
That's information I got from a lactation consultant and my children's dentist.

My DD was similar. We followed the Dr Jay Gordon night weaning when she was about 2 and it worked like a dream. Well, she stopped feeding in the night. Did not actually totally sleep through until nearly 3!

I've been there OP it's exhausting - people are right - you need to break the cycle of wake = boob in mouth. It doesn't mean stopping BF - but it does mean stopping your child getting to breastfeed constantly all night.

Please be reassured - it is much much quicker to fix than you think.

Be prepared for a few upset nights - get your husband to go in and settle - just try it - an experiment, don't get worked up about it - decide that the first hours at bedtime are the way to crack it

A sleep expert gave me advice with this - focus on the first hours of waking as you are too tired by the middle of the night. At your childs age - they do not need BF every 20 mins - you are actually interfering with their sleep by letting this happen.

If you decide not to give the boob for first few hours - pat back to sleep/ shush/ cuddle/ sing/ get your husand to cuddle / settle - I guaruntee you will have better sleep within a few nights.

This is a toddler! not a newborn - they don't need constant BF all night, lovely as it is - you need your sleep too - and you can kep going with feeding at other times.

@ChildcareIsBroken Thank you 😊 that makes sense 👍🏻

I’ve been there OP, you have my sympathy. It’s very difficult when you’re in the thick of it. Both mine were the same and they were over 2 before they started to go to sleep and stay asleep. We got through by cosleeping as I wasn’t prepared to sleep train.

Things did resolve themselves naturally, but it took time. Our relationship survived and we did have a second just over 2 years after the first. Looking back it was hard, very hard and it’s worth knowing you do have options.

Get the No Cry Sleep Solution book, it’s full of good tips.
don’t leave him to cry. Just gently start weaning him and offering a sippy cup of milk

I nearly posted something very similar yesterday! I was just so tired and my baby wasn’t going more than 2 hours without waking for a bf… Lots of false starts and waking right after we put him down too.

I got DP to give him formula in a bottle for his bedtime and first night feed yesterday and we got a couple of 3 hour stints last night. Today he’s been with his Auntie so had 3 bottles of formula and is now snoozing away beside me (we have just gone over the 2 hour mark with no false start). I’m wondering if the best way to get longer stretches of sleep is to stop bf or at least switch to formula before bed/at night and from other posters it sounds like this may be the way forward!

I’m not ready for him to be in his own room but I’m very ready for some more sleep and my evenings back too. Good luck!

We tried various things. We had people tell us everything we were doing "wrong". Nothing worked.
I'm not saying op should just do nothing. By all means, night wean and see if that makes a difference. I'm all up for trying new ways if you're at the end of your tether. But when you have a child who can literally scream so much that he nearly throws up when dad tries to put him to bed, it was easier for me to keep going back and forth in the end.
I was just sharing my "hopeful story" that the op asked for🤷🏼‍♀️