Londoner? ULEZ expansion - wrong time?

[GrubzUp]

I like Sadiq Khan, in general I applaud green initiatives.

However it's been announced today that the original inner London low emission zone is to be expanded into outer London - meaning that if you have an older, more polluting vehicle it will cost you £12.50 every time you drive it anywhere in London (inside the M25 I think).

I live in outer London. There are a LOT of older, non ULEZ compliant vehicles on the road round here. At the moment, people don't need to be compliant for local trips, because unless they're heading inside the North / South Circular Rd, they are fine in their older cars.

I look out in the street and see my neighbours' cars: the people who tend to drive older vehicles are the young, the old, the disabled and the poor.

AIBU to say that hitting them with a big new tax for driving anywhere in the middle of a cost of living crisis is the WRONG time? If they can't afford a newer model they certainly can't afford to pay £12 every time they take it off the drive. I feel bad for these people. How are they going to afford it?

Note that public transport here is not what it is in inner London, you can't just "jump on the tube".

Wrong time yes
20 years late

Well yea, that's because they don't care about anything until it affects them. That's not unusual it's just self interest and not a reason not so do it.

There are clean air zones in lots of cities now aren’t there?. For example in Birmingham it costs about £8 a day to use a car now if the vehicle doesn’t meet low emission standards. People generally understand it is needed. It is only people living near London who seem to have a problem with it.

Children are dying because of car pollution

No they're not. One child has air pollution on their death certificate. Children are not routinely dropping down dead from pollution.

The fact that it is only on one person's death certificate doesn't mean that it is only contributed to one death.

Estimates say 40,000 people a year in the UK die from air pollution. If you consider that dementia is probably at least partly caused by air pollution, the numbers will be even greater.

Also, it's just much more pleasant to have clean(er) air.

Anyway, the courts agree with me and Khan. Until it gets to the appeal court, anyway. We'll have to see where it ends up ultimately.

Are you seriously expecting us to believe you over Imperial College London who have said ULEZ is saving 4,000 lives a year?

I believe there was a lot of people refusing to pay the fines In Birmingham

I have a problem with it because I live in an outer borough which is no different to the surrounding counties

Congestion charge for driving into central London fair enough but not this

My car is compliant

It's utter nonsense. If you've drunk the kool aid, more fool you. This is simply about raising money. 4000 lives saved a year... I live right on the border of ulez... traffic is worse than it's ever been thanks to ltns. It's gridlock whereas previously it was busy but moving freely...yet 4000 lives saved. Hmmm
People die... unless it's on the birth certificate I cannot see how we can put a number on it. We really must stop trying to cure death.

If they really gave a shit about our health, they'd remove the ltns and allow traffic to flow quicker...but we all know the London boroughs are making too much money from the fines

You don't see how we can put a number on it? Do you understand the concepts of mathematical modeling - or is maths another flavour of kool aid

I can understand the frustration of inconvenience, of lack of time to prepare, of the feeling that some are penalised more strictly than others, but trying to claim that pollution doesn't exist or that the well studied health problems associated with pollution are some sort of made up conspiracy theory, really is an indefensible and childish position which makes you look at best willfully ignorant

According to the "science" teenagers are experiencing high blood pressure due to pollution. As a mum of teenagers,not once has a doctor ever taken their blood pressure. I have never heard of any of their friends being treated for high blood pressure. Does anyone here have a teen with high bp? Apparently there's loads of them...

You think you know better than Professor Frank Kelly at Imperial College, Professor Stephen Holgate at Southampton, Dr Suzanne Bartington, Dr Gary Fuller, Dr Camilla Kingdon, President of the Royal College of Peadiatrics and Child Health?

Ok. What are your qualifications and experience in this field?

Ah, it just gets better!

Never heard of research?!

I wasn’t aware that all the experts are saying pollution is having no impact on morbidity or mortality. Perhaps you can link to those experts or report that states that rather than just naming people.

I am sure there are some people refusing to pay it but most people have just accepted it in Birmingham, despite the fact that it does affect them even if they live in an outskirts as still have to pay it to drive to work, hospital etc if their car is not compliant..

@ReedRite sorry just realised you weren't talking to me!

The experts ARE saying that pollution is having a major impact on mortality and morbidity. As are the health charities, like British Heart Foundation, Cancer Research, Alzheimer’s Research, Asthma and Lung Uk. They’re not just saying that for no reason, it’s because that’s what the research evidences.

I can’t find papers for you right now as I’m about to head out for the afternoon, but you should be able to find them with a quick Google.

Ah! No worries 😃

I lost my licence overnight for medical reasons, in London. It's fine. Walk, pal.

It’s crazy. And destroying lives. Having met people in his team they only care about the poor or the rich.

Somewhat agree. Yet this policy just allows the rich to keep doing that one mile car journey vs stops those who can’t afford a new vehicle . It’s not progressive

Sadiq is an open misogynist
I have met members of his team and and very comfortable saying this. I invite him to sue me to disprove my claims

Examples of his misogyny? As I know people who work directly for him (including women) and they all speak quite highly of him.

You'll need to say who you are rather than hiding behind an anonymous internet handle. Presumably you'll be happy to do that since you're so confident in your claims.