Londoner? ULEZ expansion - wrong time?

[GrubzUp]

I like Sadiq Khan, in general I applaud green initiatives.

However it's been announced today that the original inner London low emission zone is to be expanded into outer London - meaning that if you have an older, more polluting vehicle it will cost you £12.50 every time you drive it anywhere in London (inside the M25 I think).

I live in outer London. There are a LOT of older, non ULEZ compliant vehicles on the road round here. At the moment, people don't need to be compliant for local trips, because unless they're heading inside the North / South Circular Rd, they are fine in their older cars.

I look out in the street and see my neighbours' cars: the people who tend to drive older vehicles are the young, the old, the disabled and the poor.

AIBU to say that hitting them with a big new tax for driving anywhere in the middle of a cost of living crisis is the WRONG time? If they can't afford a newer model they certainly can't afford to pay £12 every time they take it off the drive. I feel bad for these people. How are they going to afford it?

Note that public transport here is not what it is in inner London, you can't just "jump on the tube".

Backlog, so is driving the only way the elderly and less abled get around? because i see plenty on our local buses. Maybe after 60 years of driving wherever, whenever, maybe its time for the youngns to have cleaner air, we all make compromises

@Devoutspoken

Assuming average driving speed of 20mph, a 10 minute journey would be around 3 miles.

Most people can expect to walk a mile in 15 to 22 minutes, so the 3 mile journey would take 45 minutes to just over an hour. Not 20 minutes!

A car is a lifeline for many who can drive door to door but are unable to walk to the nearest bus stop or stand to wait for a bus.

You seem to lack empathy and understanding about how people are able to travel.

I hear you and I would like to see a better and more realistic scrappage scheme. £2k to only those on benefits isn't enough.

But we're weighing two serious problems here - on the one hand all the problems you mention, and on the other, thousands of extra cases of cancer, dementia, stroke, heart disease, COPD and other lung diseases, children developing stunted lungs and thousands of premature deaths, including previously healthy children. Which wins? Which do we think is more important?

Taking this at face value, you would assume that if there was a disproportionate effect on the elderly and disabled, then that could be discriminatory in legal terms.

However, you would have to assume the effect in strict numbers is small, otherwise Khan could be breaking the law. If there are alternatives like public transport, a scrap page scheme and small numbers then the argument will be the extension for the greater good (shorthand for environmental measures, and pollution reduction).

There should be an Equality Impact Assessment alongside the GLA report for decision. Shouldn't be too difficult to find.

He disgusts me

Bexley, Croydon, Harrow and Hillingdon have released a joint statement saying they will fight the ULEZ expansion as it will impact the poorest in their communities

Good

Bravo! I hope Bromley so the same

Shaunthesheep, I was responding specifically to a poster, who i assume was able bodied, who was talking about a restaurant 10 mins drive from their house.

Eh? It’s not a zero sum game is exactly what I’m saying!! Why do you want to prioritise the elderly over children? Don’t children deserve to grow up with full capacity lungs and without particulates lodging in their organs that could go on to cause cancer and other serious illness? Don’t we want to save thousands of lives each year?

We need to drastically reduce NO2 and particulates for everybody, but it’s the youngest who bear the brunt.

I agree, though, that the impact on the elderly hasn’t been thought through sufficiently. The scrappage scheme needs to be much less stingy, or there need to be more exemptions for a period of time. It shouldn’t be beyond the wit of man to do this, but I guess the problem is money.

It certainly isn't a 20 minute walk! It's 3 1/2 miles. A bike isn't an option for me.

What's the answer then, how we do reduce car use?

Once again, the ULEZ is not about reducing car use, it's about reducing pollution from vehicle emissions!! If you are lucky enough to have/ afford a compliant car the ULEZ won't deter you from driving

ULEZ isn't about congestion or reducing car use.

It's about reducing the proportion of highly polluting vehicles on the roads in the defined area. Which I do think needs to be larger than it currently is - especially getting as much included south of the river as there already is to the north

Lol.

You are complaining about swapping a massively over-engined cars for another one? And for having to sit in traffic to drive a mile to exercise??! Is this a reverse? Walking a mile takes about 20 minutes or 5 minutes by bike and you’d need less time on your elliptical.

Blackheath also has plenty of well-connected bus and train routes, despite the lack of tube.

If you’re driving a 3.5l car in London, it’s because you believe it gives you status - you’re a petrol head, so all this bemoaning LTNs is disingenuous.

There's me thinking it's about reducing traffic and pollution!

Cargo bike. They even come in electric now. Expensive but a lot less than a car, and apart from a yearly service, which costs less than a tank of petrol, no ongoing running costs.

The more people that got off their lazy backsides and out of their cars, the more pleasant London would be for everyone.

Those who genuinely need their cars and vans for mobility or work reasons would have emptier roads and air quality would be better for all.

And that is your right.

It’s also my right to vote in people who will make changes to the law to benefit those of us who do believe in science, and know that climate change is real and pollution is deadly.

Drive all you like, but don’t complain about being stuck on main roads and in traffic. You made the choice.

And don’t pretend to give a shit about the elderly or disabled - if you did, you would do whatever you could to leave the roads clearer for them.

Libertarian nonsense. Me, me, me.

If you look at the projected numbers of cars that this would affect, it is a small number relative to the number of registered vehicles in the greater London area.

The figure within greater London is estimated to be 200,000. 15 per cent.

That is in policy terms a small figure for a big benefit (funding for the tube etc). Obviously this is really meant to catch people outside the zone who drive in, otherwise it would not be worth doing.

So what you are saying that for the greater good another 100+ million should be taken off the poorest to boost London? Why that demographic shouldering the burden?

It will catch anyone inside the zone with an old car doing a journey, older, poorer etc. it will affect least mostly male commuters who have existing transport links to the centre, but hit harder those who are usually female doing care work, in lower paid caring professions who travel across suburbs.