Londoner? ULEZ expansion - wrong time?

[GrubzUp]

I like Sadiq Khan, in general I applaud green initiatives.

However it's been announced today that the original inner London low emission zone is to be expanded into outer London - meaning that if you have an older, more polluting vehicle it will cost you £12.50 every time you drive it anywhere in London (inside the M25 I think).

I live in outer London. There are a LOT of older, non ULEZ compliant vehicles on the road round here. At the moment, people don't need to be compliant for local trips, because unless they're heading inside the North / South Circular Rd, they are fine in their older cars.

I look out in the street and see my neighbours' cars: the people who tend to drive older vehicles are the young, the old, the disabled and the poor.

AIBU to say that hitting them with a big new tax for driving anywhere in the middle of a cost of living crisis is the WRONG time? If they can't afford a newer model they certainly can't afford to pay £12 every time they take it off the drive. I feel bad for these people. How are they going to afford it?

Note that public transport here is not what it is in inner London, you can't just "jump on the tube".

So much traffic in my area of London is manufactured. Ltns mean other roads are now permanently gridlocked...ltns are usually in the more middle class areas and all traffic is diverted to the main roads where cheaper housing is. So many local journeys which used to take a very short time now take absolutely ages and result in me driving more miles than if I'd been able to take the direct route which is now blocked with their sodding plant boxes. A lot of people still wfh...traffic should be lower than ever and if they had just left things alone it would be. Instead traffic is worse than ever because of their eco zealot/money making nonsense, thus making pollution worse. I detest living in London now. You're very naive if you think this is not just a money making scheme.

Yes that would make the problem worse

Exactly why I made the ‘suggestion’ so many I this thread think that ulez is such a great idea especially if they won’t be affected. I wonder how they’d feel if it was something that affected their lives like air travel. But for now it’s fine for the disabled and poor to have their lives curtailed

But for now it’s fine for the disabled and poor to have their lives curtailed

You misunderstand.

For some of us, at least, it’s BECAUSE we don’t want the poor and disabled to have their lives curtailed that we support the expansion.

THOUSANDS of people die per year because of air pollution. Others develop dementia, heart disease, cancer and other fatal and life limiting illnesses. Children develop asthma and have stunted lungs because of it.

And who disproportionately bears the brunt of this? The poor and disabled. Who are more likely to live in the more heavily polluted areas and less likely to be able to move away.

The ULEZ expansion is a helpful start to reducing this. I would like to see the scrappage scheme be far more generous than it is, though.

I’m not against ulez- thoroughly against LTNs- but given the sheer cost of living it is not the time. Those that say it’s more important clearly can afford it. Loose your income, be unable to feed your families and then tell everyone you’re happy for the expansion.

If the government cared at all about lung health they’d have banned smoking and vaping. But they don’t. They wouldn’t let families live in dangerously mouldy and damp homes but they turn a blind eye.
This is just a tax dressed up as being for our benefit when it’s not.

Those who can’t afford a compliant car Cant afford the £12.50 a day either so will have to make unfair choices and/or suffer. It’s the wrong time it should be delayed.

You nailed it

Right, so because the government isn’t doing everything, we should protest about them doing something? Odd logic. Surely better to have something and push for more?

I hear your about cost of living and would like to see more £ for a decent scrappage scheme. But I don’t think it should be delayed even so. Nobody else’s child should die because of pollution like Ella Kissi-Debrah.

Comedy cook, a lot of council estates have been ltns for years

And how is it a money making scheme if thousands of people don't even own a car?

Why do people even need to fly once a year. Even that's excessive

For work, potentially.

Devoutspoken

because in Greater London where it is expanding to, the vast majority of people do own a car and lots of them would be liable for ULEZ.
my 83 year old mother is having to sell her very old and prized car because she can’t afford to pay it. But people like you are applauding the fact that this will take away independence for lots of older people.

what vile people you are.

Sadly I think this will hugely affect the elderly. It’s extremely unfair on many vulnerable groups.

Air quality and health are important but there has to be some give and take when vulnerable groups are negatively affected. Exemptions or a lower charge (eg £12.50 per month not per day)

lostwithouteachother

absolutely.

my mum has a blue badge but still has to pay as she isn’t registered disabled.

@Gymrabbit *But people like you are applauding the fact that this will take away independence for lots of older people.

what vile people you are.*

You’re right, that’s exactly what people are applauding 🙄

Gym rabbit I was actually replying to comedycook and was referring to inner London where its ridiculous to say its purely a money making scheme. As for outer London that is obviously not the same and yes it will affect some people and benefit others, not sure if that makes people vile.

And what is 'manufactured traffic' anyway?

I live just on the edge of the current ULEZ zone in a car that isn't ULEZ complaint. I spend about £100 on unavoidable ULEZ charges a month already where public transport isn't an option. I avoid going into the zone at all costs. For example, I regularly visited a lovely local area where there are nice cafes and restaurants and independent shops. It is 10 minutes in car, and around £3 parking. Now it's 45 minutes on a bus and £3 minimum in bus fares for the whole family. I frankly simply don't bother going now.

I have no idea what we're going to do before next August now. We can't afford to change our car to something that actually meets our needs. And I would think scrapping a car / making a new one is a lot worse for the environmental impact.

Our car was sold to us 8 years ago as one of the most environmentally friendly on the market for it's size. The experts have now changed their mind. I get 50-60 miles to the gallon. Yet the huge 3 year old range rover owned by neighbours, which gets 20 miles to the gallon is fine.

The guys a complete cunt imo. This punishes the average person. The rich and the very poor won’t be affected. Those with a bog standard normal car - he hates us. I. live in a county and work in an outer London borough. Public sector and shift work so no transport after midnight. I had planned to use my car until the end of its natural life - it’s got 160k miles on the clock and isn’t worth anything but could easily do another 50k.

The ULEZ zone was expanded to cover quite a large area in 2022. People have coped.

Many haven't, actually. In our area there are many people who are now virtually housebound - disabled and elderly people. Shops and restaurants are suffering too around the edge. My GP surgery and local supermarket are both within the zone (I am just outside it). I am currently avoiding having some much needed blood tests as I can't justify either half a days leave (I'd be gone around 2-3 hours using public transport, rather than 30 minutes I can easily make up if I drive there)

Oh wow, ‘vile people’??

Who is ‘applauding old peoples’ independence being taken away’, exactly?

Those of us broadly in favour are concerned about people DYING because of toxic air. People like Ella Kissi-Debrah, a 9 year old from Lewisham. Look her up if you don’t know about her.

Yet none of us have called those with an opposing view ‘vile people’. Given the stakes of continuing with the current situation are very high, in that there will be thousands of unnecessary deaths each year and thousands of others suffering serious illness, who do you think would be more justified in calling the other side ‘vile’? I don’t think it’s those wanting cleaner air, but in any case, perhaps it would be better not to resort to mud-slinging.

Justean, if uts 10 minutes by car, that's a 20 minute walk or a short bike ride