Londoner? ULEZ expansion - wrong time?

[GrubzUp]

I like Sadiq Khan, in general I applaud green initiatives.

However it's been announced today that the original inner London low emission zone is to be expanded into outer London - meaning that if you have an older, more polluting vehicle it will cost you £12.50 every time you drive it anywhere in London (inside the M25 I think).

I live in outer London. There are a LOT of older, non ULEZ compliant vehicles on the road round here. At the moment, people don't need to be compliant for local trips, because unless they're heading inside the North / South Circular Rd, they are fine in their older cars.

I look out in the street and see my neighbours' cars: the people who tend to drive older vehicles are the young, the old, the disabled and the poor.

AIBU to say that hitting them with a big new tax for driving anywhere in the middle of a cost of living crisis is the WRONG time? If they can't afford a newer model they certainly can't afford to pay £12 every time they take it off the drive. I feel bad for these people. How are they going to afford it?

Note that public transport here is not what it is in inner London, you can't just "jump on the tube".

Lidl/Aldi don't deliver and I find them the cheapest. If I want to drive to the supermarket, I'll drive to the supermarket. I don't live in North Korea ffs.

Don’t be so naive.

A recent study has found that pollution levels in the original ULEZ zone have barely changed.

If the levels had reduced, as to make a significant difference, then yes, it becomes about saving lives.

They haven’t though, so it is all about the money.

Link with further detail re ULEZ zones not being particularly effective on their own.

Phys.org

It is awful and a moneymaking exercise

DH has an old runaround but he doesn't drive much apart from supermarket once a week. I bet we won't get anything in the scrappage scheme. Khan is worst than Ken

Will they have cameras everywhere

Comedy poker, it's interesting that you associate supermarket deliveries with a totalitarian state, not sure they're a big thing in North korea

If its just about making money then surely it would be a payment that affects more of the population, thousands of londoners don't own a car

That's really tough and I totally understand about the lack of transport to Heathrow and shifts

If it’s about pollution surely they would just ban such vehicles

100% comedy cook- they are cleansing so many hard working people that don’t hit the 100k a year threshold.

North Korea is lovely this time of the year.

My disabled 82 year old mum's only outing from her flat is her weekly visit to the supermarket. She lives in the new zone, my car is not compatible. So I will have to pay £12.50 to take her shopping. Not everyone wants a delivery.

What really annoys me is the blithe way the scrappage is proposed to help those who can't afford to change car. If you're on (this list of benefits) or your business meets xyz criteria... and you can find the difference between the scrappage value of your current car and a brand new electric car - you can have a car that won't pay the charge. Oh, and don't forget the cost of installing a charging point at home - if you don't live in a flat. And the cost of replacing the battery when it dies.

Of course they couldn't do that...just introduce a random payment to raise money? That wouldn't wash with the public.

Yes, it the even more annoying suggestion to just cycle everywhere.

People are missing the point.

The ULEZ scheme is not a congestion scheme. It's not about getting cars in general off the road, reducing congestion or replacing car journeys in favour of other forms of transport. That's a different thing.

It's about removing the most polluting vehicles from London.

Unfortunately this isn't the brand new SUVs because any newer car will meet the emissions limit. It's the very modest older cars whose owners tend to be old, or young or poor - so this tax is on them.

It's my elderly neighbour with her 21 year old Nissan Micra for whom this realistically spells the end of her driving careeer. It's the single mum down the street, a social worker with a nine year old diesel Ford Focus that she needs for her job but will struggle to afford to replace. It's my 18 year old nephew who uses his cherished 2004 Reg which he bought with his own money to get back and forth to his evening job in a pub on the very edge of the green belt where there's no public transport.

It won't affect anyone who has the means to own or to buy a new car.

I sent that too soon - so many people don't have enough money to pay the difference between scrappage and an electric vehicle. In fact, that difference is more than they'd usually buy their cars for out right.
If you can afford scrappage then a huge percentage of people affected by this can't take advantage of it. Those running businesses or self employed that don't meet the criteria. Low income people who don't quite qualify for any benefits. My friend is a nurse living in Dartford and working at a hospital in Sidcup, not far to travel at all. She isn't eligible for scrappage, even if she could afford it. So she is expected to pay £12.50 per day just to go for work, and if she's on the wrong shift - double that.

No. I associate being told where I can and cannot go with a totalitarian state. Bizarre that you are trying to turn a trip to the supermarket into a controversial thing to do.

Being told where you can and can’t go? You already get told you can’t drive in a bus lane without paying a fine, or drive around the round about the wrong way, or go down a one way street in the other direction … does that mean we already live in a totalitarian state?

No one is stopping you from driving to the supermarket, but if your car is highly polluting you will have to pay a fee. Which is have had to do for years if you wanted to drive into central London.

So what about key workers who live outside London, but work in London? The ones who work crazy shifts when no other public transport is available? Are they suppose to cycle from Milton Keynes to North London at 2am in the morning? I'm taling police officers, nurses, fire fighters.

I can't get excited about people owning bicycles and taking their kids to school on them. It's a good thing to do.

Owning a 400 quid banger than pollutes the air isn't. Khan is right to expand the zone. The kids most affected by pollution are the most deprived- it's a necessity.

I think people who bought deisel cars in good faith should be compensated by the manufacturers or the councils that charge. They could use the money to buy non polluting cars or the charge.

Just had to buy a crappy old banger that has the number of seats I need for work and boot space. I paid way over the odds for it. We have had to borrow money and my car that I was currently using that was very well looked after is now waiting to be scrapped. I honestly am so lucky I've been able to borrow money. I don't think I have been so tightly squeezed before. It's been a really dark couple of months and my heart breaks for people that will now be out of so much pocket. We've lost money. No two ways about it.

My son has asthma, I understand if they want to clear the air a little. It's good. I just don't understand why it had to be the same time our rent went up £400, and like everyone else all bills and grocery shops are through the roof, our current life is unsustainable, yet a few months ago we had a lot of disposable income. I can see this really mentally affecting a lot of people.

We're allowed to moan and vent about it on here. If it stops us crying for a bit about how things tough are at home then vent away is what I say. I now have a really old banger that I hope lasts enough years for me to do my job ok.

Devoutspoken

If you think lots of people don’t own a car in the new expanded zone then I bet you don’t live in it so you’re not entitled to an opinion on this. Hi

I do - I don’t know anyone who doesn’t own a car. We don’t have the tube network her and trains are being cut constantly.

And if he really wanted to stop the congestion. He would ban these cars not tax the poorest and workers trying to earn a living.
he’s a money grabbing scum bag and the vast majority of people in Greater London are well aware that he has done the grand total of bugger all for them.

There's absolutely no requirement to use scrappage to buy a "brand new electric vehicle". You can take the two grand and buy a ten year old petrol car or just spend the money on train fares and occasional taxis and hire cars.