Londoner? ULEZ expansion - wrong time?

[GrubzUp]

I like Sadiq Khan, in general I applaud green initiatives.

However it's been announced today that the original inner London low emission zone is to be expanded into outer London - meaning that if you have an older, more polluting vehicle it will cost you £12.50 every time you drive it anywhere in London (inside the M25 I think).

I live in outer London. There are a LOT of older, non ULEZ compliant vehicles on the road round here. At the moment, people don't need to be compliant for local trips, because unless they're heading inside the North / South Circular Rd, they are fine in their older cars.

I look out in the street and see my neighbours' cars: the people who tend to drive older vehicles are the young, the old, the disabled and the poor.

AIBU to say that hitting them with a big new tax for driving anywhere in the middle of a cost of living crisis is the WRONG time? If they can't afford a newer model they certainly can't afford to pay £12 every time they take it off the drive. I feel bad for these people. How are they going to afford it?

Note that public transport here is not what it is in inner London, you can't just "jump on the tube".

I don't care what they do or don't do. I'm just fed up of them preaching to others. Not everyone can afford a car plus a cargo bike plus road bikes for every member of their household and I'm bored of them telling others what to do.

Basically in London now, you're screwed if you're
Disabled
A carer
A tradesman
Poor

It's just another form of gentrification. Those now best suited to living in London are middle class, able bodied adults who wfh and don't have any caring responsibilities.

I know a woman whose Ds bike cost £750. My previous car cost £500!

It sounds far more like you have got an issue with politics rather than a few over engaged people who like bicycles.

No idea what you're on about. I'm not aligned with any political party...I'm a floating voter anyway.

I'm just fed up of living like this.

You can buy cheap cars and expensive cars, you can buy cheap bikes and expensive bikes. Shocking news.

I refuse to believe that your insurance, road tax, MOT, and PETROL costs (never mind maintenance on such an old car) costs less than £250 for the year. Then those costs are ongoing whereas the cost of the bike is it, baring repairs but no running costs.

Hardly proving your point that driving is cheaper?

Will there be some kind of prepayment thing much like prescription charge pre payment perhaps ? Or is it just £12.50 a day to make the most possible?

I don't care if it's cheaper or not. I don't care if others ride bikes or drive cars. I just want to live my life without being told what I can or can't do.... providing I'm driving legally then I will drive as much as I want.

There needs to be a better and wider exemption system

Or 12.50 per day to dissuade people from driving polluting vehicles more than they have to. A "season ticket" would have the opposite effect to the one desired.

But there are going to be disabled people, carers or those on very low incomes suffering. I’m all for protecting the future but we can’t do it at the expense of the vulnerable now ? Surely there should be some kind of heavily subsidised pre payment system if not full exemption for these groups ?

Sorry if you think your car is a protected species, it’s not

People's lives and the economy have been based around cars for decades though. You can't just radically alter that overnight without causing quite a lot of collateral social and financial damage.

COmedycook, I'd like to live my life without being choked by fumes, not sure why your quality if life is more important than mine

Jacktorrdnce, it's not overnight though is it? It's been happening slowly for a long time, any change is going to be painful for some whilst welcomed by others

Free form I know both carers and disabled who cycle, the latter in a specially adapted bike. You can't just make a blanket statement that all disabled and all carers are affected. It's just not true

Welll it might be in daily mail but I know these talks are happening...looking to introduce Singapore style tolls around

Hahaha naive ppl who think this is all about the environment ots all about taxing u and getting your money

You're not unique. I also live with the same air quality. Neither of us exists in a bubble. I don't feel like I'm being choked by fumes nor do I believe air quality is as poor as they try to tell us it is. In 2030 new petrol and diesel cars will no longer be sold in the UK. This will improve things even more. Electric cars will soon be the norm. This is a money making scheme.

Spectre8 - try telling that to the thousands of people whose lives have been improved immeasurably by these changes - and no-one's got my money.

And I know many disabled people / carers/ those on v low incomes who will be massively affected. So it seems nobody can make a blanket statement either way but there absolutely should be support for those in these vulnerable groups who will be affected

Comedyvook, I'd like to live my life without traffic jams everywhere, cars clogging the streets, private car ownership in cities like London is falling and that's a good thing

Free form, and vulnerable groups will also benefit from the changes

What a pointless comment. I don't know a single person who enjoys traffic jams.

I can’t see for example a low income family with a disabled child feeling they are benefiting much on a cold wet day when they have a medical appointment and have to find an extra £12.50

To those trying to place the ‘daily Mail’ narrative, it’s misplaced. People are calling things out from what they see. The massive inequities in London.
I see the children’s friends been driven all over the place. Swimming, dancing, music lessons etc over a wide area. Hobbies for adults all over, gyms driven to in new cars. A cargo bike too in the garage for jaunts on nice days. Private schools driven to every day. Easily 20-30+ miles in a day at peak times between their cars. In general their lifestyles are ones of wild over consumption of everything, from food miles to new clothing that isn’t worn (though from ‘eco’ companies,just wildly more of everything.)

I don’t know a family with a cargo bike that doesn’t have a car. There are plenty here too. The families I know who are complaining about cycling live in flats where bikes aren’t allowed in hallways and there is nowhere to put a families worth of bikes. You’d need a small room to put bikes in for a family of 5.

I don’t drive 20miles many weeks, I don’t drive the children to clubs or schools. I use the car only when I have to. My house is small and insulated as it’s newer, not a high ceiling Victorian 5 bedroom house. I don’t consume at anywhere near the levels on any measure, and many are similar.

It’s not jealousy to ask why the demographic with the least is paying for something that isn’t really having any actual impact. Though a lot of
families here would not be remotely phased to pay the price of another morning coffee / pastry to drive. £12.50 is pennies in the world of affluent London. It is though a bigger deal to those paying it.

Public transport here is okish to head to the centre, but there are really minimal ways of travelling from the outer areas to other outer areas. My nearest Lidl for example is only 2.5 miles away but there is no bus or train in that direction. I’ve have to get a bus 3 miles to another place, then switch buses for a 5 miles bus that charges ar more than tfl. It’d be about £10-12 and an hour each way. Regardless if it’s shitter elsewhere on public transport, it’s still pretty unviable and shit.

Supermarkets deliver

Comedy cook - my point is that cars have dominated for too long, in cities this is beginning to change and that's a good thing, over use of cars is not pleasant for most people