To be glad that the Down Syndrome abortion appeal was defeated

[Fififafa]

A woman with DS has twice tried and failed to get the courts to outlaw abortion beyond 24 weeks for foetuses with DS. Under current legislation for England, Wales and Scotland, there is a 24-week time limit for abortion, unless "there is a substantial risk that if the child were born it would suffer from such physical or mental abnormalities as to be seriously handicapped", which includes Down's syndrome.
I read that she has is being supported by some religious group.

I’m glad that the appeal was lost. This is a personal decision that every woman has the choice and the right to make. What Heidi Crowter et al are doing, is fighting to remove that choice from women. AIBU?

I agree.

Its not full term though is it? No one’s waiting to 36 weeks to have an abortion are they?! This doesn’t happen!

We’re discussing abortions of babies with serious disabilities around 26-27 weeks. You can’t just walk into a clinic at 26 weeks and announce that you want an abortion!!

Agreed. Lots of lies are told by anti abortionists.

She didn’t. Heidi’s was a surprise birth diagnosis. So her mother didn’t make an active choice to have a child with DS, but now expects others to (or preferably be forced). It’s outrageous.

Yanbu. 100% agree with the judgment.
as early as possible, as late as necessary.
Women should always have the right to choose.

I admit I’m even more biased as I work with a 22 year old wonderful lady who just graduated uni and has Down syndrome . She is amazing and made me change my mind about so many misconceptions.

And that’s fantastic. Some people with Downs Syndrome are very high functioning and go on to lead fulfilling, independent lives. Equally valid is the perspective of a lady who lives near me who has a 15 year old son with Downs Syndrome. He is incontinent, has severe learning difficulties and is occasionally violent. She is desperately, desperately worried about what the future holds for him and who will look after him when she’s no longer here or able to as he won’t be able to lead an independent life. It varies.

This isn't about not wanting a baby

This does happen , not often but it does . Instead of reporting maybe do a bit of research ! Speak with people ho have gone through it .

Given that anomaly scans are at or around week 20, the woman doesn't actually have 24 weeks to decide what to do.

She has four.

It doesn't. Stop lieing.

This is 100% a lie!! Stop spreading your misinformation, am reporting you to Mumsnet and I hope you get banned. Your lies could cause extreme distress for those facing difficult decisions that I'm guessing you never have. Go look at yourself in the mirror and try to work out what's wrong with you, you bitter loser

Do you honestly think that anyone terminates at 24 weeks because they 'don't want a baby'?

What an obscenely ignorant thing to say.

Women who terminate at that stage of pregnancy do so for serious reasons, making a heartbreaking choice.

People do not seem to understand that Downs Syndrome includes a small number of high-functioning people and many people with undeniably complex disabilities.

My friend it's a psychology at NHS. Her main job is to help parents who have suicidal thoughts because they can't cope with their child's disabilities.

Most women who decide abortion that late it's because they got the news quite late and they have the right to decide what to do.

Some life threatening issues aren’t picked up until after 20 weeks, so it could easily happen that a woman wasn’t having an abortion until after 24 weeks you horrible judgmental person <awaits deletion>

Because, and this is sensitive and upsetting, but some babies are born alive, who would not survive without intense and distressing intervention. Parents and medics may decide that treating aggressively is not in the best interests of the baby, and therefore allow nature to take its course. That is what, I think, is being suggested as "termination at birth", which is not an accurate reflection of what actually happens.

So someone not capable whether mentally, physically or financially of adequately parenting a child with a serious disability should never become a parent?

In your dream world, you'd enforce that policy would you?

The other thing that always strikes me is that the forced birthers are never advocating more rights/more benefits for these children and their parents. And, my God, the uproar in the village when the lad with DS I referred to upthread “trumped” someone who lived a lot closer to the sought after primary school. So much simplistic bullshit about a deeply complex (and individual) matter.

As early as possible
As late as necessary

This should never have made it to court and I am relieved it failed to change the law.

So no life-saving treatment for babies that will likely die soon?
There comes a point where treatment is cruel.

I think the law is just fine where it is….

"24 weeks is more than enough bloody time to realise you don't want a baby imo.

Think its disgraceful you can abort at all past 16 weeks but there you go."

My goodness @CoastalWave you're not very clued up are you? Second thread in a row that I've replied to your spouting of utter nonsense 🤣

I think people are misunderstanding (I think!) what this poster meant.

24 weeks is only relevant for women who choose to terminate for no medical reason. If there is a medical reason, you can terminate past that point anyway, so all those people jumping on this poster saying "Yes but most problems aren't detected until after the 20 week scan" are missing the point, because there is no limit in those cases.

I think what the PP meant was that the current abortion limit for people wanting to terminate because they do not want to continue with the pregnancy (with no medical issues) is too high and that by that point, you should know whether you want to continue or not.

And for what it's worth, I agree. I know of a child born at 22.5 weeks, who is now a healthy early teen. I know its rare they woudn't have health issues, but for me 24 weeks is too high and agree it should be lowered (we have one of the highest limits in Europe). Obviously this is not valid for anyone wishing to terminate because of medial reasons with either the baby or the mother.

Pro choice. Early as possible (for the woman's benefit), late as necessary. Doesn't matter the reason. If a woman wakes up one morning and is certain she doesn't fancy carry the pregnancy any further, she should have the option to abort.

That's before we get into DS etc. doesn't matter why. A woman should be able to just choose but sadly it's still not the case and women can still be prosecuted in England for aborting a fetus of 12 weeks for example if she used abortion pills prescribed for a different pregnancy. A woman could go to prison under our current laws for getting rid of a bunch of cells